Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 54
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 15:16:50 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.religion.christian,
alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Craig Maxim's anti-Moon crusade
George wrote:
> >> Tell us: when and where was Moon ordained so that we should address him
> >> with the title "Reverend" ?
> >
> >Well, really Peter! Is that the best that the prestigious Oxford University can
> >do?
>
> Sometimes the obvious questions are the most pertinent. You sneer at
> Peter but he has asked a perfectly valid question and you have not
> answered it (but then what else should we expect from a Cambridge man!).
Honestly speaking, I consider it a trivial and irrelevant question.
> > Why does he need an ordination? Did Jesus have an ordination, or Moses,
> >Buddha, Confucius or Mohammed? Get real!
>
> But Peter didn't ask about Moses or Confucius or Mohammed so why muddy
> the waters with this reply. Just answer his question, please. When and
> where was Moon ordained so that we should address him with the tile
> "Reverend"?
> --
> George Nimmo
Okay, since you insist on a answer, Rev. Moon was ordained directly by Jesus and
God Himself. Lesser men are ordained by their peers. With his own authority and the
authority of God, he bestows the Blessing, and various other graces upon humanity,
including titles.
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 17:15:40 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.religion.christian,
alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Craig Maxim's anti-Moon crusade
By what authority do you declare a man ordained by God to be the anti-Christ?
By what objective criteria do you determine that the Unification Church
is a cult? Is a cult not just an unpopular and unfashionable religion?
By what objective standard do you determine what is good for former
members of new religions? You sound like a misanthropic demagogue who
insists that only your way is the best, someone who makes use of popular
prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power.
Your whole viewpoint reeks of bogosity and hubris.
Damian Anderson
Anton Hein wrote:
> Anton Hein's (ahein@xs2all.nl) reply to "Damian J. Anderson"
> <damian@unification.net>, who - on Sat, 07 Aug 1999 19:12:53 GMT - wrote:
>
> >Okay, since you insist on a answer, Rev. Moon was ordained directly by Jesus and
> >God Himself. Lesser men are ordained by their peers. With his own authority and the
> >authority of God, he bestows the Blessing, and various other graces upon humanity,
> >including titles.
>
> Moon is an anti-Christ and a cult leader. Messages promoting him and his
> group do not belong in alt.support.ex-cult.
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 20:00:36 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.religion.christian,
alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Craig Maxim's anti-Moon crusade
Rev. Stars is yet another coward who uses a fake name and a fake address.
Yes, I am saying that Christ's second coming has already occurred and that
God has ordained Rev. Moon as His champion. Any further questions?
And as a matter of curiosity, where did Jesus' authority come from Mr.
Pharisee?
Damian Anderson
"Rev. Stars" wrote:
> Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net> wrote in message
> news:37AC8622.5F9E5D47@unification.net...
>
> > Okay, since you insist on a answer, Rev. Moon was ordained directly
> by Jesus and
> > God Himself. Lesser men are ordained by their peers. With his own
> authority and the
> > authority of God, he bestows the Blessing, and various other graces
> upon humanity,
> > including titles.
>
> Mr. Moon was not ordained directly by Jesus *and* God Himself.
> God is spiritual. Are you making the wild assertion that Jesus
> had his second coming already just to "ordain" Mr. Moon?
>
> ... or was this one of those personal "revelations" that cults
> are so fond of?
>
> Rev. Stars
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
From damian@unification.net Sat Aug 7 20:41:09 1999
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 20:33:16 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Dennis Smith unmasked (alias Larry Zilliox Jr.)
I did not speak to any friends of Zilliox, I read what a fellow traveller
of his wrote on the following web site. Does that answer your question,
proven liar Dennis Smith, alias Larry Zilliox Jr? Or is it convicted felon
Larry Zilliox Jr? Enquiring minds would like to know. I suppose your same
dirt digging tactics can be used to investigate you. What is sauce for the
goose is sauce for the gander. If you want to conspire to deny the first
amendment rights of a large minority of Americans, don't expect us to take
it lying down!
http://ejournals.cic.net/journals/f/Books.html
<--------------- START QUOTE --------------->
The Opposition Research Book: A Guide to Political Investigations 1993
Wanna' dig up some dirt on a political candidate? Larry Zilliox, who
*Factsheet Five* readers would be interested to know had co-authored
*How to Investigate Destructive Cults and Underground Groups*, has
assembled what he calls a very basic manual on how to do it. After
reading it, I'm so convinced about its comprehensiveness that I'm about
to input its forms into my database program for any future profiles I
might compile. Filled with techniques you can use to create a candidate
profile, *The Opposition Research Handbook* would make Machiavelli proud.
Most of us are aware of the tremendous amount of valuable personal
information we can obtain from a good public or university library
-- books like *Who's Who* and *The Combined Federal/State Disclosure
Directory*; CD-ROMs such as *Select Phone*, *PhoneDisc*, and *Nexis*;
and other resources. Most of us, however, don't know about programs
like *Project Vote Smart*, which answers questions on candidates and
campaign spending. To the serious political researcher (or the serious
amateur investigator, for that matter!), *The Opposition Research Book*
may help you find that missing link.
$20 + $4.5 Each to Larry Zilliox, Jr., Paladin Press, P.O. Box 1307,
Boulder, CO 80306 (100 Pages/JJF) No trades/no ads/
<-------------END QUOTE ------------>
Dennis Smith wrote:
> All the messages are from Zilliox under an assumed name. Your starting
> to crack. I forwarded your funny message to him yesterday. I got a
> message back that indicated he was sort of pissed that you had been
> calling around to his friends to get information about the book he
> published.
>
> I told him you made the whole thing up because you were bored or crazy
> or both. Your post here seems to indicate you are just crazy. You say
> you did not know he has any friends but in your earlier post you said
> "Even your friends described the book as Machiavellian." How would you
> know that unless you spoke to his friends. It looks as if you made the
> whole thing up.
>
> Now your seeing Zilliox behind every post. Do you feel he is stalking
> you Damian? Sounds like you need a little
> medical help.
>
> I have been so busy lately that I have not had time to get on and
> post. But now that it looks like Anderson is starting to crack it
> would probably be a good time to post all the good stuff from the last
> few years like the CARP Spy program and all the Moon quotes and UCI,
> Parent's Day and everything else I can find.
>
> Let's start with the Like to the City Paper Parent's Day story that
> shows how the National Parent's Day Foundation is a front for
> Convicted Felon Sun Myung Moon and his Not A Real Dr. wife.
>
> http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/moonies/parents.htm
>
> D.Smith
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 22:18:36 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Dennis Smith unmasked (alias Larry Zilliox Jr.)
Sometimes the portly PI Larry Zilliox Jr. forgets to use his fake name, Dennis
Smith. Lookee here:
http://x35.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=208759467&CONTEXT=934077438.1261568159
Subject: Re: change in perspective
Forum: alt.religion.unification
Date: 1997/01/09
Author: Larry Zilliox, Jr. <dsmith1@worldnet.att.net>
How about that. Isn't that special! :-)
Then you have this one:
http://x35.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=509767765&CONTEXT=934077438.1261568159
Dan Smart! Very creative Dennis Smith. He even has your initials.:-) This is a guy
who is accustomed to deception, to underhanded dealings and to conning his way
into getting information. What do you expect? Then this week we had another one:
Subject: Re: Dennis Smith unmasked (alias Larry Zilliox Jr.)
Date: 1999/08/05
Author: Ronin <ronin@mail.anonymizer.com>
An anonymous e-mail address. Very cute. Is this yet another alias of the master of
disguise, Dennis Smith, alias Dan Smart, alias Lary Zilliox Jr?
Come on, pull the other leg. It's got bells on!
Love and kisses,
Damian
ExUCer wrote:
> Dennis for some unknown reason I have serious doubt that Damian is lying here.
>
> >All the messages are from Zilliox under an assumed name. Your starting
> >to crack. I forwarded your funny message to him yesterday. I got a
> >message back that indicated he was sort of pissed that you had been
> >calling around to his friends to get information about the book he
> >published.
>
> Do you have any proof that what Damian says is not the truth???
>
> He is not famous for lying? On the other hand we really know nothing about
> you. I hear from other people that what Damian says is true.
>
> Show us the truth?
>
> Danny H.
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 22:23:18 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.religion.christian,
alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Craig Maxim's anti-Moon crusade
Good dodge, Anton. Now answer the question. Where did Jesus' authority come
from? When you know the answer to that question, you will know the answer to
your own question of where Rev. Moon's authority comes from. And for the
record, I don't think it is rudeness to point out that we have a lot of limp
wristed pansies attacking Rev. Moon who don't have the guts to use their real
names.
Damian Anderson
Anton Hein wrote:
> Anton Hein's (ahein@xs2all.nl) reply to "Damian J. Anderson"
> <damian@unification.net>, who - on Sat, 07 Aug 1999 23:56:41 GMT - wrote:
>
> >Rev. Stars is yet another coward who uses a fake name and a fake address.
> >
> >Yes, I am saying that Christ's second coming has already occurred and that
> >God has ordained Rev. Moon as His champion. Any further questions?
> >
> >And as a matter of curiosity, where did Jesus' authority come from Mr.
> >Pharisee?
>
> Folks, there you have it: a fine example of the rudeness and crudeness of
> one of Mr. Moon's biggest fans. Sad, isn't it?
>
> About the Unification Church
> http://www.apologeticsindex.org/u00.html#ucmoon
>
> Anton
> --
> Apologetics Index: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/
> Apologetics and Countercult Information about Cults, Sects,
> and Alternative Religious Movements - for Research and Ministry.
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 16:46:44 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Craig Maxim's anti-Moon crusade
Bill Taylor wrote:
> > And for the
> > record, I don't think it is rudeness to point out that we have a lot of limp
> > wristed pansies attacking Rev. Moon who don't have the guts to use their real
> > names.
>
> And how often to you appear here in this group? You have never finished a
> thread that you have started.
>
> What do you mean by, "limp wristed pansies"?
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?pansy
Main Entry: 1pan·sy
Pronunciation: 'pan-zE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural pansies
Etymology: Middle English pensee, from Middle French pensée, from pensée thought,
from feminine of pensé, past
participle of penser to think, from Latin pensare to ponder -- more at PENSIVE
Date: 15th century
1 : a garden plant (Viola wittrockiana) derived chiefly from the wild pansy (Viola
tricolor) of Europe by hybridizing the
latter with other wild violets; also : its flower
2 a usually disparaging : an effeminate man or boy b usually disparaging : a male
homosexual
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 16:53:57 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
To: Unification Church Internet Evangelism mailing list
<UNIF-EVANGELISM@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.religion.christian,
alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: Craig Maxim's anti-Moon crusade
Anton Hein wrote:
> Anton Hein's (ahein@xs2all.nl) reply to "Damian J. Anderson"
> <damian@unification.net>, who - on Sat, 07 Aug 1999 21:11:45 GMT - wrote:
>
> >By what authority do you declare a man ordained by God to be the anti-Christ?
>
> I am a Evangelical, orthodox Chistian - meaning that I adhere to the
> teachings set forth in the Bible. Mr. Moon militates against those
> teachings. God does not ordain false teachers. I state so on the
> authority of Scripture, and with my authority as a Christian (a follower
> of Jesus Christ - which Mr. Moon is not).
I don't think you are qualified to pass judgement on the man ordained by God as the Messiah,
or to judge how closely he follows Christian teachings. In my view, you are a false teacher.
How do we decide who is right?
> >By what objective criteria do you determine that the Unification Church is a cult? Is a
> >cult not just an unpopular and unfashionable religion?
>
> The Unification Church is a cult sociologically and theologically. Cults
> are not just "unpopular and unfashionable" religions. In fact, some cults
> are rather popular and fashionable.
You did not answer the question. If you consider the Unification Church to be a cult, then by
that same standard, Jesus and his apostles and disciples constituted a cult. I challenge you
to come up with an objective standard which includes one and not the other.
> >By what objective standard do you determine what is good for former members of new
> >religions? You sound like a misanthropic demagogue who insists that only your way is the
> >best, someone who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order
> >to gain power.
> >
> >Your whole viewpoint reeks of bogosity and hubris.
>
> Interesting smoke screen. What is it, Damian? Are you projecting your
> own shortcomings on those who criticize the man you worship?
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?hubris
Main Entry: hu·bris
Pronunciation: 'hyü-br&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek hybris
Date: 1884
: exaggerated pride or self-confidence
- hu·bris·tic /hyü-'bris-tik/ adjective
Bogosity:
http://www.netmeg.net/jargon/terms/b/bogosity.html
> Former cult members vary greatly in their tolerance of cult promoters like
> yourself. I have been involved in apologetics and countercult work for
> well over two decades, and have gained much insight into the traumas
> experience by cult victims. Thus I can tell you that promoting a cult on
> a newsgroup aimed at ex-cult members, is much like promoting a rapist in a
> newsgroup meant for victims of rape. It is boorish at best.
Then what are you doing on alt.religion.unification? Do you not have a double standard? Is it
rude for me to post on alt.support.ex-cult, but not conversely rude for you to post on
alt.religion.unification?
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 17:18:46 -0400
From: Damian J. Anderson <damian@unification.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.support.ex-cult,
alt.religion.christian
Subject: The purpose of the Unification Church
Michel Brebsom wrote:
> HRobin153 wrote:
> > Folks knew what they were getting into before any 'damage' was done. It's
> > understood that the life of a Moonie(tm) is very difficult. It's the nature of
> > the 'mission'. You can't build Heaven on Earth without going against the god
> > of this world, and there are inherent dangers in pursuing that course. Duh.
>
> Sorry Hamm, but I definitely do not agree with you, at least not with
> your first sentence. While I was being "recruited" I only received
> positive information. They only talked about how wonderful it is to be
> part of the big UC family and to know God's truth. They spoke about
> values they were believing in and had visions of a better future.
Michel,
You are someone who ought to know better. Why does the Unification Church exist at
all? We are a group of people who believe in the vision, ideals and teachings of Rev.
Sun Myung Moon, and central to that is the notion that God is suffering because
humanity is suffering. Those who are called to join the UC are called to sacrifice,
to give of themselves for the sake of changing the fate of all humanity so that the
future can be better for God and all His children. That is something which not
everyone is up to doing, and there are understandably many who decide it is not for
them, and that is fine.
> Being aware that nobody is perfect I showed tolerance when I realized
> that the reality of UC was not in line with its values, visions and the
> preaching of its leaders. But eventually I gave up my tolerance towards
> people like Moon who claims being perfect, being the savior of
> humankind, but who continously abuses the people who naivly believe in
> him.
No, he does not abuse people. He asks people to offer a sacrificial life up to God
which can be used for the salvation of humanity. Not everyone is altruistic enough to
attempt that. Perhaps you decided that you had sacrificed enough. That is also okay,
but please do not denigrate the sincere offering of those who choose to do so. It
also belittles your own contributions. It is easy to be a believer when you are
accepted and praised by the world. But the first Christians were like the
Unificationists, reviled and hounded by the Satanic society. In the case of the early
Christians, a large percentage of them died violent deaths, just like their Lord.
> See Hamm, it's not (only) because THEY had been abused that ex-members
> are posting to this newsgroup, but it is (also) because they observed
> how thousands of OTHER members have been and still are being abused.
> Example: Japan. Moon continously "hits" japanese members in the name of
> indemnity (see japanese-korean history) and misuses them to fill his own
> pockets (everybody knows that the donations japanese members have to do
> are incredibly high). I lived for 2 years with japanese missionaries and
> although they didn't show or say it clearly they suffered a lot under
> the financial burden (among others) that Moon puts on them.
American members are now coming to share that financial burden for the vast variety
and number of philanthropic projects that the church supports. This is not only a
Japanese thing. The US economy is doing very well, whereas the Japanese economy is in
trouble.
> Besides that, Hamm, as a former (national) leader of the UC, I followed
> a 80 day leadership training and participated in a lot of leaders
> meetings. About recruitment of new members the strategy we were told to
> use was clear: tell them positive things, surround them with positive
> members, give them as soon as possible a 7 (5) day workshop so that they
> can understand DP, especially indemnity (so UC can better control them),
> and after that introduce them into the 3 pillars of (UC) life of faith:
> worship, witnessing, tithing. In short: first subdue them then abuse
> them.
Michel! Are you saying that worship, witnessing and tithing constitute abuse? I am
sorry, but those are the most natural and normal aspects of a religious life in any
faith worth its salt. I think perhaps I have a good definition for "cult" for Anton
Hein. It is a religion that is effective. :-)
ITPN,
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net