Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 42
Dec 9, 1996
Subject: Spurious Accusations against Rev. Moon
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <19961207202300.PAA22043@ladder01.news.aol.com>
On Sun, 8 Dec 1996 06:15:28 GMT Tim Brown (bathroom@iglou1.iglou.com) wrote:
> dfeff@aol.com writes:
> >Who is Rev. Moon?
> He is a nut who runs Procter & Gamble and the Washington Times and gives
> bombastic speeches full of hatred for "American-style democracy". He was
> also convicted of polygamy in 1948 and tax evasion in 1982.
Proctor and Gamble? Where did you get that one? I thought it was owned
by its shareholders! :-) As for hatred for democracy, you are just
blowing smoke. If you had read his speeches, you would not be saying
that.
Rev. Moon went to a communist concentration camp in 1948, but it had
nothing to do with polygamy. They did not like him preaching, and the
other churches betrayed him to the tryannical authorities. And as others
have said on this newsgroup, the tax evasion prosecution was a result
of government bias. They do not usually prosecute in the case of taxes
due, they just send a bill. They wanted him out of the country and
pressed charges, even when the money was not due.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 17 languages and growing.
See articles on news:alt.religion.unification.
Subscribe to mailings: http://www.unification.net/forms/subscribe.html
Dec 15, 1996
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:01:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Subject: Re: question on Unif church practices
Message-ID:
On Sat, 14 Dec 1996, YP wrote:
> what truth is there that blessed children are only to be born by
> caesarian section ? This should have something to do with getting them
> free of original sin & al.
> thanks for an answer
There is no truth in this at all. God created the woman's body to deliver
a baby naturally vaginally. Children are freed from the original sin by
virtue of the Blessing of their parents by God, not by the method of
birth.
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 17 languages and growing.
See articles on news:alt.religion.unification.
Subscribe to mailings: http://www.unification.net/forms/subscribe.html
Jan 9, 1997
Subject: Re: Christian=evil NOT!
Newsgroups: alt.religion.universal-life,alt.religion.unification,
talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <32CF5DC0.28D4@juno.com>
On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 23:52:32 -0800 Debra (wyrddsmith@juno.com) wrote:
> Itamar Danziger wrote:
> >
> > Christianity is a religion of Evil.
> >
> > We know that Hitler was a Roman Catholic. He was a BELIEVER.
> > That must mean that Jesus love Hitler as much as any other christian
> > believer!
> > That means that IF Jesus loves Evil too, he must have some evil aspects!
> > Am I supposed to believe in a God of evil?
"You believe in the one God -- that is creditable enough, but the demons
have the same belief, and they tremble in fear." James 2:19
Belief on its own means nothing. Hitler did not practice the teachings
of Jesus, believer or not. Satan believed that Jesus was the Son of God,
yet despised and hated him.
This is the standard of whether one is a disciple, not merely a believer:
"I give you a new commandment: love one another; just as I have loved
you, you also must love one another. By this love you have for one
another, everyone will know that you are my disciples." John 13:34-35.
--
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Jan 14, 1997
Subject: Re: World Scripture: God
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam
References: <5anndo$e1e@news2.cais.com>
On Sun, 5 Jan 1997 09:58:17 -0500 M Yilmaz (meyilmaz@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
> Peace In
> You know Damian, I am supprized your not a 5%er.
What is a 5%er? If you mean "Top 5% of the Web", I am in that 5%. Ask Lycos.
> After all, they use
> quite a few religious texts to say they are Gods, you know, the idea they
> believe is "overlapping" in faiths. The fact is not all faiths believe in
> one God and not all belive that the Supreme Being has a stable character.
> In fact, some beliefs say he is fallable and limited. I do not doubt that
> you know that. Some do not believe His knowledge is unlimited. The
> Character of God does not overlap much in World Scripture. A perfect
> example of how religions can never overlap on this point is the Pharoahs
> of egypt and the numurous rulers who claimed Godhood.
Quite so, not all religions believe in the one God, yet the one God
revealed Himself to many peoples in various ways over history, which
have elevated the spiritual standards of those who have practiced those
teachings.
> Now as far as peace, not all religions beleive in peace. The
> ancient Celtics were lovers of war and believed that if you walked out
> alone you might wander into another world, where death was none existant,
> feasting on pork and wine was an inceasent bounty and war was always
> waged. If you were killed you'd just wake up the next day alive again
> ready to fight. No pain, just there idea of fun- one with out peace.
Yes, there were many pagan religions which were far from God. And God
condemned such practices in the Hebrew Bible, and in the Holy Quran.
> In other religions such as hiduism and ancient summerian religion
> and Greek polytheism gods waged war on each other. These gods are looked
> upon as wise entities, and yet they wage war. this leaves the precedent
> for man to wage war as well.
Even Christians, Muslims and Jews who believe in the ONE GOD have waged
war on one another.
> But I am not going to deny there are some clear overlaps between
> religions Damion, because in Islam (yes I am a muslim), we happen to
> believe a prophet was sent to every nation. If you belive that then you
> realize "Hey, how come they don't have a message similair to Islam
> anymore? ", the awnser is simple. Time and time again man has corrupted
> his religion. Even Christ said that he came not to change the law but to
> fufil it. Christians magically turn the word "law" into "prophecy" but
> that is not what Christ said. He came to fix the corrupted hearts of the
> Jews. Now, the ONLY religion that has one clear true unaltered text
> maintained over 100 years (and it is actaully 1400 years) that scholars
> agree is in pure form is indeed the Quraan. Even hundreds of sayings of
> the Prophet (peace be upom him) and the entire life of the man was
> memorized miticulously and kept pure. Is not that something remarkable
> when you realize how easily things are corrupted by man? I mean just
> look! Stand thirty people in a line and start a message at one end, and
> before it reaches the end it will be changed, perhaps completely. No
> other text has this character and this is precisely the character a final
> revelation from God should have.
The religion of Unificationism has preserved the teachings of its founder
on video-tape, audio tape, CD-ROM and the Internet, while our prophet
is still alive.
> I don't know why you like to think prophets are lying about God,
> or God is lying about himself, because by denying Muhammed pbuh as a bona
> fide prophet either means you think his source is lying, or you think he
> himself is lying by adding in his own revalations.
I believe that Muhammad is a bona fide prophet of the living and eternal God.
> Well, you are not alone. You see any one who studies Islam and
> doesn't except it does so because they have not studied enough, or they
> have some sort of position, or they are prejudice. In your case you are
> prejudice because you would rather be nuetral. They way a studied scholar
> tries to deny Islam, like my mother who never opened the Quraan, is they
> say that the man was influenced by demons. There is nothing more
> rediculous. Every action in Islam is clearly good (if you study
> carefully, you'll see even how war in Islam is just). So what do you
> believe Damion? This I want to know. What do you believe about Prophet
> Muhammed? Or maybe you have never given it real thought you just kind of
> "go with the" Unitarian "flow". You think you are being nuetral and
> loving, but to me you are unknowingly insulting every human beings faith
> by trying to make them overlap. So tell me what do you belive about
> Prophet Muhammed pbuh?
As I said, I believe that he was called by God to teach the people of
his time about God and raise them out of idolatry into the belief in
the one God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the eternal, immutable, absolute
and unique almighty God.
> I am not too expectant. It is like ly to be unsatisfactory,
> but you know, Propet Muhammed pbuh was described even in hinduism BY
> NAME! It predicted that a champion of justice (and whatever their all
> encompasing good force is) and would conquer X lands. Look it up.
> They call him Mahomet. Perhaps you did not know that. It supports the
> idea of prophets being sent to each nation and the corruption of
> religious texts that Islam describes. I still want you to awnser my
> question. I hope you actually read my arguement. May Allah guide your
> heart, andeveryone elses.
> Peace Out
Thank you. And perhaps you can also read the words of my prophet, Rev.
Sun Myung Moon. Take a look at the Divine Principle at:
http://www.unification.net/dp96
Sincerely,
In the name of God and the True Parents,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Jan 23, 1997
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:48:10 -0500
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
Subject: How to deal with a wife who wants a divorce.
On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 David wrote:
> How can a person stop the cycle of sin?
>
> My wife is forcing a divorce. We have two children, 8 and 10.
> I cannot sustain an expensive custody battle.
> She wants to have custody, me the father will only have "visitation" rights.
> How can I raise healthy children with father as God connection?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
> (member of Unif Church for 6 months in 1976)
Hi David,
This is a heartbreaking and familiar situation. What you can do is get your
life right with God, no matter what she does. Begin to pray and study every
day. Seek Godly friends. Find God and experience rebirth yourself. Find a
church that you can attend regularly, and turn your life completely to God.
In short, make your life exemplary. Then, attempt to pass this on to your
wife and children, and do whatever you can to find a mediator who can prevent
this tragedy from occurring. Find out what it is that is causing her to want
the divorce, and repent of that. Even if you are blameless, repent on her
behalf. When God has put two people together, no man or woman should break
that up.
Do not judge her, no matter how wrong she may be. Love her with the heart of
Jesus who forgave those who killed him. Try hard to overcome bitterness and
anger towards her. Love God and her and your children more than your own
life. Then, leave it in the hands of God. This is my best advice.
I wish you well.
Sincerely,
In True Parents' Names,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Feb 15, 1997
Subject: Re: GWW: Responsible for the crucifixion
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <5e3qqd$1s@news2.cais.com> <5e4ngj$f78@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
On 15 Feb 1997 16:16:19 GMT Libertarius (attila1@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> >You may again want to ask me, "With what authority do you say these
> >things?" I spoke with Jesus Christ in the spirit world. And I spoke
> >also with John the Baptist. This is my authority.
> ===>That explains it. Mr. Moon gets his information and doctrines
> "from the spirit world", i.e from his own fertile imagination.
> Apparently he goes into a trance and communicates with characters
> like John and even Jesus...O, well....
Jesus also spoke to Saint Paul. Whenever someone has
departed from this life, then they are in the spirit
world, so where else would one talk to Jesus?
> Jesus was a DISCIPLE of John the Baptizer. John PREPARED the
> Jews for the REVOLUTION to come. He was "greater than any man
> who ever lived" according to Jesus, as quoted by Matthew and Luke.
> NO ONE was "responsible for the crucifixion" except Jesus himself,
> who took on the role of messianic king, but was betrayed by the
> Herodian establishment of priests and bureaucrats who were traitors
> to the cause of the Messianic Liberation Movement of Jesus and his
> followers. He was EXECUTED by the Romans as a subversive, for the
> crime of sedition.
Jesus said that John was the greatest man born of a woman,
BUT the LEAST in the kingdom of God is GREATER than he.
This is because John failed to become a disiciple of Jesus. (Matt 11:11)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Mar 25, 1997
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:57:19 -0500
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Subject: Re: The slippery slope towards fascism
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
> In <33376FCD.34E2@unification.net>, "Damian J. Anderson"
> wrote:
>
> >I presume there are already laws in Germany against fraud. They should be
> >applied equally to any lawbreakers, irrespective of religion. But it is
> >dangerous when you target a particular group on the basis of beliefs, not
> >action. In that case, the guilty individuals who commit the crimes should
> >be held responsible, not a whole organization.
>
> Currently only the scientologists have abused the job placement system.
> So it's only fair that the organisation ("Arbeitsamt") protects its
> clients, i.e. the job seekers.
Really? Nobody else breaks that law? Well, well, what a nice country. If
the Scientologists break the law, then I agree with prosecuting them, but I do
not agree with harassing a group on the suspicion that they may break the
law in the future.
> >> If your opinion is
> >> that they should be allowed to, then I suggest you apply for a job at
> >> Executive Software or RealWorld. I'm sure they would take you. I'm not
> >> sure you will enjoy their "management technology".
> >
> >I wouldn't know. If people are willing to pay for what the Scientologists
> >offer, let them. Does that harm you or anyone else?
>
> You evaded the question. You are seeking a job, and you apply at
> RealWorld or Executive Software, but are not told by the job placement
> agency that you might be forced to take scientology courses.
No, I did not evade the question. I did not know what you were talking
about. And if the Scientologists want to offer people employment, then
that is a public service. If people do not like the conditions of
employment, they are free to leave, right? I know that this was not
true in the past in Germany. Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, and other big
companies in the past used slave labor. Now I think that the
Scientologists will pay people for the work they do, so I don't have a
problem with their employing people, even if they do offer them
training on the job in their corporate philosophy. It happens here all
the time, and I think it is fine. If people don't like the corporate
philosophy, they can work elsewhere. Government has no business
interfering and dissuading people from working for a lawful employer.
If you make life too difficult for people to operate within the law,
they may have to break the law.
> >No Tilman, this is not *my* concept of religious freedom, this is *your* concept.
>
> It *is* your concept. You support mind-mending. You are yourself a
> mind-bender, and obviously a good one, so you're allowed to meet the big
> bender personally.
You have an interesting way of using words. Someone who agrees with you is a
crusader for the rights of the poor "cult" members, and someone who disagrees
is a mind-bender and a soul-killer. Fascinating!
> >And how do you bend a mind or kill a soul? My belief is in the practice of the
> >love that Jesus taught. He said "Love one another as I have loved you. By that
> >love will men know that you are my disciples." Rev. Moon has been teaching this
> >kind of thing since 1945, and I am his disciple and I am proud of it. You will not
> >see me defending defrauding anyone. Unfortunately, you see me and others with labels
> >attached, like "cult", which dehumanizes me.
>
> See the definition of "cult", and you might even see yourself that it
> applies to your group.
I know what I see, and it does not correspond to your anti-religious
propaganda. You judge without seeing. Have you ever attended a
Unificationist event or visited one of our churches? Perhaps you are
too attached to your prejudices to do so.
> > This is just like the Star of David
> >"JUDE" label. Be careful that you do not BECOME what you HATE. Jesus taught us to
> >love our enemies, and to pray for those who wish us harm. Is that wrong? This is
> >what we teach. The things that you quote of Rev. Moon are caricatures of what he
> >represents. Think carefully about what you are doing and what you are expending your
> >life's energies for. You have a finite time on this Earth like we all do, so use
> >it wisely.
>
> So everyone who uses the word "cult" is a nazi?
Did I say that?
> >> Tilman
> >>
> >> P.S.: Did you hear about the "success story" of the five people in
> >> Canada?
> >
> >No, I didn't.
>
> That shows how far away you are from the real world. Five more
> "suicides" from solar temple members. At least they spared some of the
> children this time.
Oh, you are talking about the Solar Temple members who died in the
murder-suicide. I did not for a moment associate your reference to a
"success story" with that. I do not advocate suicide, and neither do
my religious mentors. Unfortunately, the solution to the problem is not
simple. Do you take children away from unbalanced parents? If that were
the case, you would have the government going wholesale into the
childcare business and I am not convinced that they could do a better
job than the average parents do. Unfortunately, faceless bureaucrats
can never replace the love of a devoted mother and father. The problems
arise in the family and must be solved there. Sin came into the world
through one couple who established a deviant standard, so it must be
solved also as a couple.
--
Damian J. Anderson
Network Adminstrator
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
E-mail: damian@unification.net
Mar 27, 1997
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:41:40 -0500
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: Tilman Hausherr
Subject: Re: The slippery slope towards fascism
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religon.misc,
alt.religion.scientology,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.christian
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
> >Really? Nobody else breaks that law? Well, well, what a nice country. If
> >the Scientologists break the law, then I agree with prosecuting them, but I do
> >not agree with harassing a group on the suspicion that they may break the
> >law in the future.
>
> By the same logic you are also against radar traps.
Not at all. A radar trap attempts to catch people on the basis of how fast they
drive, not on their religious affiliation.
> >And if the Scientologists want to offer people employment, then that is a public
> >service. If people do not like the conditions of employment, they are free to leave,
> >right? I know that this was not true in the past in Germany. Mercedes-Benz, Porsche,
> >and other big companies in the past used slave labor. Now I think that the
> >Scientologists will pay people for the work they do, so I don't have a problem with
> >their employing people, even if they do offer them training on the job in their
> >corporate philosophy. It happens here all the time, and I think it is fine. If
>
> The scientologists don't tell what they do. They say its a "management
> course" or a "communication course", while its actually a scientology
> course.
So what? If the employees don't like the job they can leave. What is the problem?
> >people don't like the corporate philosophy, they can work elsewhere. Government has
> >no business interfering and dissuading people from working for a lawful employer. If
> >you make life too difficult for people to operate within the law, they may have to
> >break the law.
>
> The government doesn't dissuade them. They just tell "hey, you're
> working at a scientology company". That's it. The decision is done by
> the applicant. The "S" just "helps" the scientologists to be honest,
> just in case the scientologists "forget" to tell the applicant their
> affiliation.
Do they do the same at Jewish owned companies for the benefit of anti-semites
who many not know that they may be enriching someone whose religion they despise?
Is this being done with equal bigotry towards all religions, or is it exclusively
for companies owned by Scientologists? Maybe some group to which you belong will
be next. Will you still be in favor of this policy?
> >You have an interesting way of using words. Someone who agrees with you is a
> >crusader for the rights of the poor "cult" members, and someone who disagrees
> >is a mind-bender and a soul-killer. Fascinating!
>
> I did not say that; you did. You are a mind-bender per your own
> biography. You are a guy who supports an organisation which separates
> families and brainwashes recruits.
No, sir. I do not call myself a mind-bender. Nor do I support an organization
which separates families and brainwashes recruits. I support organizations
with highly altruistic goals which coincide with my ideals.
> You supports these goals.
Are you telling me that you know better what I believe than I do myself?
What hubris!
> Your cosy
> relationship with the big bender will certainly get cosier, as you will
> some day be on the receiving end of a lawsuit (if someone recruited by
> you - if this exists - decides to sue the Moon organisation and the
> individuals who advertise for it).
Go ahead, make my day! By the way, I saw him again tonight, at a Martial Arts
demonstration in Washington DC. The mayor of Washington was there too and
gave him an award.
> >> See the definition of "cult", and you might even see yourself that it
> >> applies to your group.
> >
> >I know what I see, and it does not correspond to your anti-religious propaganda. You
> >judge without seeing. Have you ever attended a Unificationist event or visited one
> >of our churches? Perhaps you are too attached to your prejudices to do so.
>
> Have I ever taken cocaine? No. But I tell people not to try it anyway.
> What's your point, LogicWizard?
I am not asking you to do anything illegal or immoral, just observe
with your own eyes rather than rely on the reports of others.
> >> > This is just like the Star of David
> >> >"JUDE" label. Be careful that you do not BECOME what you HATE. Jesus taught us to
> >> >love our enemies, and to pray for those who wish us harm. Is that wrong? This is
> >> >what we teach. The things that you quote of Rev. Moon are caricatures of what he
> >> >represents. Think carefully about what you are doing and what you are expending your
> >> >life's energies for. You have a finite time on this Earth like we all do, so use
> >> >it wisely.
> >>
> >> So everyone who uses the word "cult" is a nazi?
> >
> >Did I say that?
>
> Not directly - you rather say that my attitude is nazi-like.
No, I didn't say that either. You are putting words into my mouth.
> Tell us the solution to avoid future suicides in cults, or the solution
> that would have prevented the countless deaths in AUM. Both were
> religious cults - just like yours. The techniques used are similar, the
> results not yet.
As a percentage of all suicides in your society, or mine, those related
to religious movements are in fact quite rare. Much more people commit
suicide for altogether different reasons such as despair over family
breakdown, depression, and so on, so I don't think that focusing on
suicides in religious movements is even valid. If you want to solve the
problem of suicide, in new religions or anywhere else, work to
strengthen the two parent family where both parents are committed to
God, to eternal marriage and to practising the message of Christ, to
love one another as he loved us. Then they will love and raise their
children well, and the problems of despair and self-destruction will
diminish and eventually go away.
Regards,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Apr 11, 1997
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:47:57 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: dkelvie@mailhost.cyberhighway.net
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Re: GWW: Your accomplishments in love are eternal
On Fri, 11 Apr 1997 dkelvie@mailhost.cyberhighway.net wrote:
> > "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I
> > have
> > loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know
> > that
> > you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:34-35)
> >
> > According to Jesus' criterion, you can tell who are the disciples of
> > Jesus
> > by whether they love one another, not by whether they subscribe to
> > beliefs
> > X, Y and Z. And Jesus reserved a lot of harsh words for the hypocrites!
>
> He did indeed, but not all who claim to be His are His.
>
> Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the
> kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in
> heaven.
> Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did
> we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in
> Your name perform many miracles?'
> Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare
> to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE
> LAWLESSNESS.'
This is indeed true, that many claim to belong to him, but do not love as
he did.
> Moon's religion does not resemble, in any way, the teachings of Jesus
> Christ or the teachings or practices of the church Jesus founded
> nearly 2,000 years ago. His "stuff" is almost entirely made up.
I wholly disagree with you. I have been a member of the Unification Church
for 20 years and I would say that no church represents the true spirit of
Jesus Christ better than the Unification Church. If you speak about our
theology as made up, then I'm sorry, but I just cannot take you seriously.
> So my question still stands...why post it on a Christian newsgroup?
Based on my answer to the previous question, I would say that the
Unification Church is a whole lot closer to Jesus than the churches who
ordain gay clergy or who have 50 per cent divorce rates, or who honor
Jesus with lip service alone, or those who segregate by race or class,
or whose young people are not celibate before marriage and their
married people are not faithful to one another. Jesus quoted Hosea 6:6
when he said "Go learn the meaning of 'I want mercy, not sacrifice says
the Lord'".
Maybe today's Christians need what God has to say through the
Unification Church to overcome some big problems such as:
1) denominationalism
2) racism
3) sexual immorality.
The Unification Church is the only religious organization I know of
which can offer a vision to overcome these problems.
> Nothing unloving there. Just an honest question.
Okay, just an honest answer.
--
Damian J. Anderson
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
damian@unification.net
Apr 11, 1997
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 06:12:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: JB
Subject: Re: TSTM: Finding God in Moscow
On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, JB wrote:
> I must say that your description of the school was touching. would that
> we had that kind of love and consideration in our schools.
>
> But what is this doing on the a.r.s. alternate religion scientology site.
This is an attempt to show that new religious movements are doing good
work.
> what was the Rev. Moon bit? Are these people being programmed with Moon as
> the new 'Messiah'? Moon should have been deported from this country some
> time ago.
Fortunately, we live by laws, and not by the whims and prejudices of
individuals.
--
Damian J. Anderson
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
damian@unification.net
Apr 11, 1997
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:04:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: PH
Subject: Re: Tales from the Heart - Unification Church Members Share
On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, PH wrote:
> > What do you expect on a platform whose only reason for existence appears
> > to be to criticize their group? Would you not also feel embattled? Be
> > content that is all the abuse you get.
>
> Thank you for your abusive response to my kind request. Is this the
> usual mode of reply of members of the unification church?
It is interesting to note that you consider your request kind, and my
response abusive. I would not characterize them as such.
> I will answer your question: I expect messages relevant to
> scientology - for or against - rather than messages about the
> unification church. I am extremely interested in your opinion if it
> differs from this, or to put it more simply - why do you post
> messages about the unification church to a scientology newsgroup?
You will be disappointed if you expect any newsgroup to be so black and
white as that. Many threads from a.r.s have come over to
alt.religion.unification where they are not really relevant at all, and
have no bearing whatsoever on Unification theology or practice, but I know
better than to whine about it.
> I wouldn't feel embattled - if I was in the Church of Scientology I
> would only be allowed to use the Internet after much special - and
> unbelievably expensive - "training".
I doubt seriously that this is true. People are free to do what they
please.
> Furthermore, abuse is not all that we get. I refer you to the recent
> Lisa McPherson case - a young woman killed by the scientologists
> because she wanted to leave.
Killed by "the Scientologists" ?? !! Which Scientologists? Has this been
confirmed by a court of law, or this just merely your conjecture?
--
Damian J. Anderson
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
damian@unification.net
Apr 11, 1997
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:29:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: PH
Subject: Re: Tales from the Heart - Unification Church Members Share
> > > Furthermore, abuse is not all that we get. I refer you to the recent
> > > Lisa McPherson case - a young woman killed by the scientologists
> > > because she wanted to leave.
> >
> > Killed by "the Scientologists" ?? !! Which Scientologists? Has this been
> > confirmed by a court of law, or this just merely your conjecture?
>
> I do not have the time - or the inclination - to educate you on these
> points, or to battle your closed-mindedness, except that I will tell you that the
> Clearwater/Florida police currently hold a number of scientologists
> on their wanted persons list in this respect. I refer you to relevant
> web pages which you will find for example, on http://home.sol.no/heldal/CoS
Let's see, you know the motives of the persons who killed her, and you
know who did it. Even if this were true, and I am not saying that I
believe it is, does this prove that the COS is an evil organization?
Let's change the names and say that we are talking about the Church of
England. If two members of the Church of England commit a murder, does
that mean that the Church of England is bad, or that those individuals
are bad? Does every crime committed by a member of the COE get blamed
on the church? Hardly.
Is the Catholic Church responsible for the mafia? It would be nice if
these organizations had some moral force. Maybe it is precisely because
the COS and other organizations have moral force that any wrongdoing by
wayward members is blamed on the church. That is a sad testimony for
the CofE and other mainstream churches.
--
Damian J. Anderson
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
damian@unification.net
Apr 11, 1997
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:31:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: PH
Subject: Re: Tales from the Heart - Unification Church Members Share
On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, PH wrote:
> Does every crime committed by a member of the COE get blamed
> > on the church? Hardly.
>
> How about if the church authorities ordered them to do it, and it was
> done exactly in accordance with the written teachings of the church?
If that is the case, then the individuals who ordered the murder should be
tried and prosecuted. But I would be leery of holding a group responsible
for the actions of individuals. That is what the Nazis did.
> In any case, you make valid points, all of which are exstensively
> answered on the web pages. Please read them before you attempt to
> argue about their content.
Which web pages?
--
Damian J. Anderson
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
damian@unification.net
Apr 20, 1997
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,
alt.christnet.theology,alt.religion.christian
Subject: What kind of person does God use?
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:47:04 -0400
Message-ID: <33599FC8.571A@unification.net>
References: <3353B2D3.2254@worldnet.att.net>
<19970418174100.NAA11706@ladder01.news.aol.com>
<3358F4A6.356D@worldnet.att.net>
Dennis Smith wrote:
> God would not use a convicted felon wife beater false messiah who heads
> a criminal organization to unite the world.
Really? I suppose you are an authority on what God would or would not do.
Did he not use the murderer Moses to free His people from bondage in Egypt?
Did he not use the harlot Rahab to help the spies in their reconnaissance
of Jericho before Joshua's conquest of it? Did he not use the incest of
Tamar to bring forth the lineage of the Christ? What do you know what
God would do, mister private investigator?
--
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Apr 20, 1997
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,alt.religion.christian,
talk.religion.misc,alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Unificationist Concept of the Messiah
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:28:14 -0400
Message-ID: <33599B5E.7551@unification.net>
References: <3360ca20.59325878@news.snafu.de>
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
> The quickest way to detect a cult is to sniff for doublethink.
[snip]
> The Unification Church's use of the word "Messiah" provides a case in point.
> Reverend Moon on several occasions has called himself the Messiah, and the
> Moonie sacred text, Divine Principle, declares flatly that the Messiah was
> born in Korea between the two world wars (Moon was born in 1920). At other
> times, however, the church hierarchy demurs on the question of Moon's
> divinity.
Perhaps you have read in the gospels of Jesus that he advised his disciples
NOT to tell the public that he was the Messiah. That was because his life
would be endangered until the time was right for him to reveal it. So also,
Rev. Moon had to allow people to come to their own conclusions about his
messianic role until the time was right for him to explain himself. For his
statements on the matter, I refer you to the web page:
Proclamation of the Messiah http://www.unification.net/pr-mes
> More important, it's not entirely clear what the word Messiah
> means in the church's vocabulary- the word means different things at
> different times. Jesus was the Messiah, according to the Moonies, but he
> failed in his mission to unite the world under a single theocracy, because
> he didn't marry and have children. Moon, then, represents the Second Coming,
> though not the Second Coming as described in Revelation. The National
> Council of Churches (NCC), in a critique of Unification theology, questioned
> the "meaning and intelligibility" of the Moonie view of the Messiah. While
> the NCC's first concern was that the teachings were un-Christian, for our
> purposes the more important critique is their incoherence.
Jesus had the mission of the Messiah, which is to create God's Kingdom
on the Earth. That work is still not complete, and that is why the
Second Coming is necessary. The Second Coming of Christ is the coming of a man
to fulfill the mission that Jesus began and did not complete. Rev. Moon has
taken on that mission at the request of Jesus Christ himself. That mission will
not be accomplished until Heaven on Earth is created. One essential element in
the fulfillment of that mission is creating the model of the true family, by
establishing the roles of True Parents, True Husband and Wife, True Brother
and Sister, and True Son and Daughter. In other words, all the familial roles
need to be modeled in their perfection so that humanity has an example for
posterity. Still, not all has been fulfilled even now. Once the standard is
established, it must be expanded to fill the world. So, Rev. Moon has taught
the concept of the Tribal Messiah. That is, those who follow after the Messiah,
the True Parents, must inherit his standard and become Messiahs in their own
right, individually, for their family, for their tribe and so on to greater and
greater levels. He has taught that the Kingdom of God can be established
if every couple takes responsibility for their tribe as a Tribal Messiah. You can
find his thoughts on the matter at:
Tribal Messiah http://www.unification.net/trmes
All people who inherit the standard of True Parents become divine beings. It is
not intended to be an exclusive role. Everyone has that potential, to embody and
incarnate fully the love which God has for us. Jesus taught this also when he
commanded us to love one another as he loved us. By that love, people will know
that we are his disciples. (John 13).
There is a lot more that could be said on the matter, but I will leave this as
a brief summary.
> By contrast, when
> reporter Colin McEnroe last year asked Unification Church spokesman Peter
> Ross whether Rev. Moon was the Messiah, Ross suggested in effect that the
> question was unanswerable. "Do you have two days?" he said to McEnroe. When
> the reporter asked whether Ross could give a summary explanation, Ross told
> him, "That is the short version."
When you ask a lawyer for an answer, it may well take two days. I hope to be
able to answer in less time.
> Benjamin Wittes is a reporter for Legal Times in Washington, D.C.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 18 languages and growing.
See articles on news:alt.religion.unification.
Subscribe to mailings: http://www.unification.net/forms/subscribe.html
Apr 20, 1997
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.religion.unification
Subject: Re: fwd: Scent of a Cult
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:00:50 -0400
Message-ID: <335994F1.5A6E@unification.net>
References: <3360ca20.59325878@news.snafu.de>
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
> The Moonies have likewise rendered meaningless a series of words connected
> to family. The church refers to itself as "the family," and members call
> each other "brother" and "sister." Moon calls himself and his wife the "true
> parents." At the same time, the church urges new recruits to cut off contact
> with their biological families (parents in particular). The purpose, of
> course, is to appropriate to the church those words people intuitively
> associate with loyalty, love, and obedience, and to disconnect those words
> from biological relationships. Yet even as Moon interrupts normal family
> relations and appropriates the authority of parents, church literature
> refers to family values, clearly referring not to the church family but to
> the traditional nuclear family.
The Unification Church does not advocate that people cut off relationships
with their biological familes. This is an oft repeated charge that has no
basis in fact.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Apr 21, 1997
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:12:30 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Adam and Eve
Hello TA,
On Thu, 20 Apr 1997, TA wrote:
> Hello my name is TA and am a second generation living
> in Australia (actually my parents are national messiahs for
> Sierra Leone, 777) anyway I was greatly impressed by your
> responses to people asking questions about the Unification Church
> and was wondering how you would reply to someone asking about Adam
> and Eve. Most members seem not to think about why there were JUST
> Adam and Eve in the first place. Surely God would have created more
> fellow humans, as it has always been my belief that God created man
> through evolution, and if thats was the case, then why would the fall
> of just one couple result in the fall of the entirety of mankind?
I don't know exactly HOW God created Adam and Eve, but I believe that
the human race began from one couple, and now, so does modern science.
It has recently been demonstrated from studies of mitochondrial DNA
that all humanity decended from one woman. And many scientists now
believe that all humanity also descended from one man. I am not an
expert in this field, but this is where I believe science to be right
now. Like all other humans, Adam and Eve had to grow from infancy to
adulthood, but in the process of growth, they violated God's command by
engaging in premature sexual relationship that interrupted their
natural development towards fully embodying God's love and becoming
divine beings. If they had followed the natural spiritual growth, then
they would have perfected love and bequeathed that standard to their
children and all their descendants.
Unfortunately, they bequeathed a standard of selfish carnal love, which
originates in Satan and not God. That evil standard has pervaded all of
humanity since that time. As a result, rather than being born into
Heaven, with the love of True Parents, as is every child's birthright,
each human being was born into the Hell created by our first
ancestors. So, every human being is living with the bitter resentment
that they did not receive True Love, and became alienated from God,
alienated between mind and body, between brother and sister, between
husband and wife, between parents and children. The human fall destroyed
true love.
The role of the Messiah is to create the standard of Godly love and
multiply it to fill the world. So, the positions of True Parents, True
Husband and Wife, True Brother and Sister and True Son and Daughter
must be established. In other words, the four realms of love must be
established in their perfection so that humanity as a whole can adopt
and inherit that standard.
You don't think all mankind could come from one couple? Say one couple
has three children, and then each couple has six children. How many
generations would it take to have 5 billion couples? In old times,
people had a lot of kids. So, one couple produces three couples, so at
each generation there is a tripling. Say that in the time that this one
couple produces three couples, the first couple dies and that each
generation takes 40 years. This is just a rough model.
5 billion = 3 to the power N, where N is the number of generations.
Then, log (5 billion ) = N * log 3
so N = log (5 billion) / log 3 = 20.33 generations.
If there were fewer children per generation, it would take longer, but
you can see that in principle, it is possible. And if each generation
is 40 years, then in 813 years, the population could rise to that
level. Clearly this did not happen like this, but it is feasible.
> Adam and Eve couldnt have been the ONLY ones for obvious reasons.
Which obvious reasons?
> Ive asked about this to many members and leaders and everyone
> has their own theories. Some say that Adam and Eve were just made
> in an instant like the old Christian Creationists believe. Others
> believe that their parents were ape like creatures one step below
> humans, others say that there were lots of humans but only Adam and
> Eve had souls.
> I know that this isnt that TOO important an issue, but it bugs me
> from time to time.
> Thanks a lot.
I firmly believe that God created all the species of life on this
planet, though I don't claim to know how. That is the job of science to
figure out.
ITPN,
--
Damian J. Anderson
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
damian@unification.net
Apr 23, 1997
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,soc.religion.islam
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:32:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: Rafiq
Subject: Re: Misleading [was Re: World Scripture - Cosmic Justice]
Message-ID:
References:
<335E7B3D.7F03@worldnet.att.net>
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Rafiq wrote:
> Damian J. Anderson wrote:
> > COSMIC JUSTICE
>
> > Whatever affliction may visit you is for what your own hands have earned.
> >
> > Islam. Qur'an 42.30
>
> Damian, if you're going to take an ayah like this out of the Qur'an,
> please make sure you don't take it out of context and/or use an
> ayah that says something like "...and kill all non-believers who you
> find..." without giving the circumstances or events leading up to such
> a revelation.
>
> True, SOME afflictions from God are because of what your own hands
> have reaped, and some are sent merely as a trial from your Lord, some-
> thing which you should have mentioned...
>
> The prophet Job (Ayyub) lost everything: his family, wealth, and
> even cursed the day he waws born. His false friends attributed this
> calamity on his sins, but they were nevertheless false because Job
> did remember God and was granted mercy.
>
>
> "And (remember) Job, when he cried to his Lord,
> 'truly distress has seized me, But Thou are the
> Most Merciful of those that are Merciful.'
>
> So We listened to him: We removed the distress
> that was on him, and We restored his people to
> him, and doubled their number-as a Grace from
> Ourselves, and a thing for commemoration, for all
> who serve Us." (21:83-84)
While you are right that not all affliction is caused by our own deeds,
this section merely stressed the scriptures which emphasize our
culpability. And of course, Job is a very good example of the innocent
suffering. Jesus is another such example. While Jesus and Job both
suffered, because they were innocent, then finally blessing came to
them, because Satan could have no claim over them. However, the
evildoers may get away with their actions for a time, but in the end,
judgment comes, and they must pay for their evil deeds. So, this
section on Cosmic Justice emphasizes the fact that in the long run, one
must pay the price for one's evil deeds.
There are scriptures which appear to contradict, but beyond the words,
there is a deeper truth. Innocent people suffer because Satan rules
this world and not God. It is humanity's responsibility to overcome
evil by living in obedience to God's command.
--
Damian J. Anderson
Cable & Wireless Internet Exchange (CWIX)
damian@unification.net
May 9, 1997
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:36:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: EW
Subject: Re: New Name for Unification Church
In-Reply-To: <3371FB31.CA4EBC8F@capecod.net>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 8 May 1997, EW wrote:
> Dear Damian Anderson,
>
> A friend went to hear Rev. Moon speak in Barrytown, NY on May 4, 1997.
> My friend said the Unification Church is no more. That the new name is
> something like "World Federation for Family Values". Why was the name
> changed? What are the goals of the new organization and how is it
> different from the Unification Church? Will the UC web page be updated
> to reflect the changes?
>
> Thank you for your time and attention.
>
> Sincerely, EW
Thank you for your note. I did not hear the speech, but the new name is
"Family Federation for World Peace and Unification". For legal purposes,
we will continue to use the HSA-UWC corporate name. From other sources, I
gather that the name change indicates that we have gone beyond the work
of a church, namely individual salvation, to the level of saving families.
Hence the name of the Family Federation. That is the best I can do for
now. My web page will not change its name, since one of our goals is still
Unification:
Unification of Mind and Body - Self Control
Unification of God and Humans - Salvation, Reconciliation
Unification of Husband and Wife - True Marriage
Unification of Parents and Children - True Family
Unification of brothers and sisters - Uniting people regardless of
race, religion, creed, color.
The Kingdom of God is a place of love and peace and joy for all humanity
on the Earth, and it must take place since it is the eternal will of God.
Sincerely,
--
Damian J. Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
May 9, 1997
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 16:43:36 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Subject: Re: Connected Opposites
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.evangelical,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.newage,alt.religion.scientology,alt.support.ex-cult,a.bsu.religion,alt.christnet.theology,alt.christnet.philosophy,alt.religion.m
Carson Lauffer wrote:
>
> Two other biblical examples come immediately to mind.
>
> 1. Jesus Christ on the cross humbly submitting to God's perfect will cries
> out "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?"
>
> 2. Satan is given the go ahead as part of divine nature to tempt Job.
>
> Both speak to the mysterious sovereignty of God.
>
> Any thoughts on these? Carson carson@essex1.com
God allows Satan to do evil because humanity were given sovereignty over
the Earth when we were created, yet our ancestors chose to obey Satan
rather than God. Since God is a being of principle, He honors man's choice
even though it hurts us and Him. In the long run, God wants us to
freely choose to love Him and one another. If He were to take away our
free agency, then when we finally get it right, it would not be our
victory. But if He respects our freedom to choose, then we get it
right, it will be truly our own. God wants us to earn the right to
be called His sons and daughters and to take that glorious position,
all human beings.
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net
May 14, 1997
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:30:29 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Subject: Rev Moon's many contributions to America
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.misc
Don Kirkman wrote:
> >> I assume you also support that Moon resigns, as he stole money from the
> >> american people, and destroyed the lives of thousands.
>
> >What nonsense! Rev. Moon has brought more than a BILLION DOLLARS into
> >America to revive the family in America and to give new life to Christianity,
> >and to defeat communism. Your accusation is laughable.
>
> My take on your rebuttal:
>
> Source of the figure? From *where* did he BRING one billion dollars?
> I'd wager most of it was raised within the US.
The money comes from Japan. Rev. Moon's projects in America consume
money, they don't generate it.
> Is your idea of reviving the family in America in agreement with his
> mass arranged marriage ceremonies for young people who may never have
> met before? This is hardly the *American* family.
The majority of the marriages being conducted are not arranged, but are
rededications of existing marriages. Those who want Rev. Moon to choose
a spouse for them may still do so, but the requirements of purity of
lifestyle of such people are much higher than from other people. We
teach seminars on the value of marriage and the family and then
encourage people to renew their commitment to one another before
God that they will strive to create a family that God can truly take
delight in by being faithful to one another, never to divorce, never
to commit adultery, and to deepen and enlarge love for one's parents,
siblings, spouse and children. God is no respecter of nations. The
American family is in grave decline, and needs help. Even many secular
left-leaning liberals agree on that point.
> GIve new life to Christianity? He and his followers are an aberration,
> an off-shoot of the mainstream Christianity that has survived for 2,000
> years. Most mainstream Christians would disagree with some of his
> teachings, in fact.
There is more than a 50 per cent divorce rate in America, even in the
established churches, child abuse amongst priests, a high rate of
pre-marital sexual activity, gender confusion, widespread drug abuse,
violence and so on, in a nation filled with churches. Now you tell me
whether the churches have been sleeping on the job. Many Christians
opposed the Unification Church because Rev. Moon ignited in young
people a zeal, vitality and vigor that put them to shame. They would
like their young people to be as enthusiastic as the people Rev. Moon
trained. But in many cases, he took the people who did not fit in to
the society in the first place since only those who could go beyond the
established order could tolerate the abuse we received from "mainstream
Christians."
" ... every eye shall see him, every one who pierced him; all the tribes
of the earth will wail on account of him." (Rev 1:7).
> Communism fell under its own weight, without any meaningful action from
> Moon. Now, if you want to rephrase that, he has worked hard and donated
> large sums of money toward far right wing causes in the US, some of them
> at odds with our Constitutional way of life.
I would say that Ronald Reagan was one of the key people in the fall of
communism, and Rev. Moon helped him get elected and then told the truth
about communism through the Washington Times. Take a look at
http://www.washtimes.com.
--
Damian Anderson damian@unification.net http://www.unification.net