Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 36
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:59:35 -0400
Subject: Re: On Becoming a Unificationist
Hi Ali,
Here is another very belated answer.
On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Ali wrote:
> One of the issues I have had with my current religious affiliation
> is the lack of actual spirituality I am perceiving among at least
> American practitioners of it. There may even be a decrease in
> active membership now - which should be a problem for a religion
> that claims to be THE religion of this age.
I think every religious group is experiencing this to some extent.
> The problem seems to be an overidentification with the administrative,
> "political" aspects of the religion (interesting for a religion where
> one is supposed to be non-partisan). I was attracted to this religion by
> many of the spiritual teachings. I have found these same attractive
> teachings in the Unification Church.
Whatever our faults, the Unification Church is very busy these days about
spreading its message and in organizing conferences worldwide to bring
together people of disparate viewpoints to effect dialogue and sharing of
expertise and traditions, so that conflicts can be resolved, to further the
cause of world peace. A new effort to come is the bringing together of
people from North America and South America in international friendship
conferences to break down the barriers between predominantly Protestant
North America and predominantly Catholic Central and South America.
> One thing that I am looking for is a religion that "walks the walk"
> and doesn't just "talk the talk". So, what is the daily spiritual
> regimen of a Unificationist?
Well, I cannot speak for all Unificationists, but my daily routine is to
get up at 4:30 am, take a cold shower to wake up, and then have 5 am
prayer for 20 minutes or so. Then I read Divine Principle or Rev. Moon's
past sermons for one hour, and then get on the Internet for another hour
to post my mailings and answer e-mail. Then I get the kids up, see the
kids off to school, and go to work. More recently, I worked at home,
so this meant going to the basement to work. Or if I worked outside the
home, then I would work until 6 pm, by which time the babysitter would
have fed the kids. Some evenings, I am able to work late, or attend
meetings as my wife takes care of them. On other nights we switch. Every
night, I read to the kids and pray with them. They are in bed by 10 pm and
I am in bed my midnight, or later. Often, I take walks to meditate and
pray. On Sunday, we attend church. This year, I am teaching second grade
Sunday School, but I may end up teaching an adult class at the church.
> Let me explain the question. For example, a Baha'i is supposed to read
> the Baha'i Writings twice a day, do daily obligatory prayer, and go to
> Feast (the Baha'i spiritual gathering) every 19 days. When they read the
> Writings, it is not just to read but to "deepen" (one's faith) through
> the Writings through prayerful meditation and reflection. What do
> Unificationists do?
Well I read Unificationist writings 20 minutes, twice a day, that is my
goal, or sometimes an hour at a time. We go to church every Sunday.
Usually when I read Rev. Moon's sermons, it is with a prayerful heart, and
often, in meditating on what he says, I come to deep realizations.
> My observation has been that many have joined the Baha'i Faith
> on a purely intellectual basis - to further their own political
> agenda (although they are supposed to be non-partisan).
There are few material advantages to being a Unificationist as we are
still such a persecuted minority. It keeps us clean, at least! :-)
> The Baha'i teachings that are presented to the public are simply the
> more "liberal, progressive" (read PC) ideas such as the oneness of
> humanity, the ultimate unity of religions, etc... The more spiritual and
> dare I say it - conservative ideas - such as family values, punishment
> for crime, meditation, etc... are rarely brought up to inquirers even
> though these teachings are in the Writings. When they are, they are
> presented in almost a defensive manner.
Well, you can see from my writings and the sermons of Rev. Moon that we
are very bold to proclaim the most challenging aspects of our beliefs.
This may be because our Messiah is still on the Earth and can call us on
the phone! And he does! :-) We strongly proclaim the message of true
family values and sexual purity.
> The other problem has been the notable lack of results from
> Baha'i efforts of these issues. What has been the Unificationist
> approach and results from ways to address these issues?
The Unification Church has a high rate of marriage stability, compared
with the society at large. We do not have a stated policy on punishment
for crime. Also, I forgot to say that we have DAILY prayer meetings, at
midnight, as the women of the church were requested to pray together every
night. I go whenever I can get the time away, usually once or twice a
week.
> The Divine Principle seems to present a fairly complete
> assessment of the historical process needed to bring the world
> to what in Baha'i terms is called "the Most Great Peace". The
> Baha'i Faith really only addresses this in vague sentiments. Plus
> I think that perhaps the non-partisan approach that Baha'is must
> use may not be very effective or pro-active.
The Unification Church is very active and highly effective in the business
of making connections with powerful people and using those connections to
influence the world in the direction of peace. However, by their very
nature, such activities are sensitive and cannot be talked about freely in
public. Let it just be said that Rev. Moon recently went on a tour of
South America and met in person with 8 presidents. Now, Mrs. Moon is on a
speaking tour in Japan with former Canadian Prime Minister Brian
Mulrooney, and with Maureen Reagan. Many people in high places heartily
believe in what Rev. Moon teaches and stands for, and what he is doing in
the quest for world peace.
> How do you know that Rev. Moon is who he says he is? What are
> the proofs that I should examine, other than his writings and
> speeches? I appeal to you because you are more the expert than
> I on this. Baha'is make great use of numbers and dates (revolving
> around the year 1844) to "prove" that Baha'u'llah is the Lord of the
> Second Advent, the Mahdi, etc... My problem is that I am dealing
> with two opposing claims. Help me on this.
Only the Messiah can solve the problem of sin. Only the one without sin
could discover the secret of Satan's crime and only he can eradicate it.
For that reason alone, one could regard Rev. Moon as the Messiah. It is a
difficult question to answer. How would you explain that Jesus was the
Messiah without reference to his own teachings? Then again, the idea of
the Messiah in Unificationist teachings is the one who eradicates the
original sin and brings people to oneness with God. That means that those
who follow after Rev. Moon themselves become messiahs also. It is just
that he is the messiah-maker, the coach of the band of prophets, the
trainer of messiahs. You may have seen the concept of Tribal Messiah in
the writings that I have been posting. What this means is that one must
achieve messiahship on many levels, individual, family, tribe, race,
society, nation, world, cosmos. Rev. Moon has accomplished all of these
eight levels, as announced on August 31, 1989 in the Ceremony of the
Accomplishment of the Eight Stages (Pal Jong Shik). He only asks us to
fulfill the first three, up to the tribal level and become Tribal
Messiahs, and then we can inherit from him the merit of having
accomplished them all and stand on the same level with him.
People who belong to the Unification Church have all kinds of levels of
faith and belief. Even if you do not agree doctrinally with Rev. Moon,
there is plenty of room to agree with him on the good works he does in the
world. Ultimately, belief in the Messiahship of Rev. Moon is a matter of
faith, and coming to that belief is a consequence of studying his
teachings and examining his works, and deep prayer to find what God
thinks of him. It is not a conclusion to be arrived at merely by the
intellect.
> Also, please explain the differences between different church
> membership levels.
Well, there are basically those who work in full time missions for the
church which would correspond to the clergy and religious orders of other
faiths, and then the people who attend church and are involved part-time
in church activities. They would correspond to the lay people in other
churches. All members at some point receive the Blessing in marriage, and
then they become a Blessed Couple. It used to be that most members were
single and full time missionaries. Now a large percentage of the
membership are raising families and working part time for the church. From
a meeting I had last week with Rev. Moon at a workshop in Alaska, my
impression is that he would like more people to be full-time missionary
members who would bring in tithing lay people who would support the
missionary activity. He especially emphasized that he wanted the
Unification Theological Seminary graduates to be in church missions rather
than working at secular jobs. I have to find a way to do that and still
support the family, since I am a UTS graduate.
> These should be good introductory questions. Don't worry - there
> will be more detailed and complex ones later.
I hope that gives you a good set of introductory answers.
> Thanks,
>
> Ali
ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:33:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: I entered into news groups
On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Alexey Yakovlev wrote:
> Dear Damian,
>
> I entered into news groups of another server in Russia - Glasnet.
> It has news groups fron Usenet and many others (including its own).
> I found there Russian Orthodox Church witnessing.
> Can you share little bit of what you send to which groups? Or you
> send the same to chosen groups. In which groups you send
> information.
> I want to make plan of witnessing to news groups and prepare
> text resources fro that.
>
> ITPN, Alexey
Hi Alexey, and everyone else,
I have sent different things out on the newsgroups and the mailing lists
over time. However, it seems that I get a better response from the shorter
posts, simply because people are more likely to read them. If I send 20
pages of speeches out a day, it is unlikely that even the most devout
person is going to find time to read them. So, just now, I send out 1 or 2
page sections of the Divine Principle, Tribal Messiah book and Father's
life. Then, I send out one section of the World Scripture, in an endless
loop. However, I feel very good about the lengthy answers I give to
people's questions and feel that they are well received. Please save such
answers for a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section at a later date.
People like very much that section on my web page.
If anything, the posts on the Usenet newsgroups have attracted the most
attention. However, it could be that many people found my home page just
by doing a search on the web. It is hard to know how people found the
material. It cannot hurt, however, to have your name be known as a
personality on Usenet, a "net personality". What I do then is when people
ask questions on the material I post, as I find time, I answer people's
questions. That is why I would not post in a language I cannot speak, as I
want to be able to field questions from the readers. So, you can post
Father's words in Russian, on a Russian language newsgroup, and then take
the flack and criticism, and the praise, whatever comes your way.
Take note that Jean-Philippe Odent is in serious trouble with the
university where he works as a result of his posts on behalf of the
Unification Church. There is a serious anti-Unification crusade going on
there. If you find that the heat gets too high, post and answer with an
anonymous remailer such as anon.penet.fi based in Finland. You can get
information on it by sending a request to info@anon.penet.fi. I did not
fear for losing my account, though in the beginning, my persecutors gave
me a lot of trouble, and bombarded by Internet Service Provider with hate
mail. If you get a lot of hate mail, learn to use a mail filter to bounce
it back to the sender. That deterred a lot of that kind of mail in the
first few months.
If anyone else want to take up the cause of promoting Unificationist
teachings on the net, be my guest. I notice that Rachel Carter and Paula
Lucier are pretty active on alt.religion.christian and
alt.religion.unification. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:58:46 -0400
Subject: Questions of Faith
On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, BL wrote:
> I am curious about a few things. Not interested in joining though, ok?
OK.
> Am happy as I am... :) When you first joined the church, what attracted
> you?
The first thing that attracted me to the Unification Church was the
clarity and depth of Rev. Moon's teachings and how they explained many
things that I had long wondered about in the Bible and in life.
> Did you feel something deep inside telling you that this religion
> was true? Different from the rest? Can you explain it? Please be as
> detailed as you can. Talk about emotions, etc.
Well, at the time, I did not have much experience with other religions
other that the Catholic faith in which I was raised. I had been an
agnostic for 6 years and had recently come back to a belief in God when I
met the Unification Church. Although I came back to believing in God, as a
young man studying theoretical physics at university, I could not easily
accept the non-scientific or absurdly anti-scientific explanations of
religion in which I had been raised. The Unification faith appealed to the
rational in me as well as to the spiritual yearning. I felt that God was
calling me and that I did not want to pass up the opportunity. My
experience with God was that He valued me and needed me. Once I realized
how much God had struggled to save humanity for so long, I felt that those
who understood this had a moral duty to do something about it. It was not
so much an emotional decision as a visceral decision, that my whole being
pointed me in this direction and my conscience told me that this was the
way to go.
> I have a friend who is in LDS and is really being psychologically
> abused, I guess you could say.
I don't have that experience of the LDS church. I have met many LDS
missionaries and talked with them at length and find them to be very
pleasant earnest religion people. They are usually young people, in their
early twenties.
> I want her to see that others in other religions feel just as strongly
> about their religion as the church tells the LDSers they should. Right
> now, she feels that all other religions are false and that only LDSers
> feel as they do. Your help will be greatly appreciated, and don't worry,
> I'll keep it anonymous if you wish. Thank you in advance!!!
You're welcome. I feel very stongly about my religious calling, but I
would not want to discourage someone in the LDS church from living by
their faith. Their standards are infinitely better than those of the evil
secular environment.
> BL
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Sep 12, 1996 01:36
Subject: Re: What is the Messiah?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
References:
<321F5C65.26BC@scott.net> <3221d95c.1192641@news.snafu.de>
<32228ED8.1A0@ix.netcom.com> <32248cee.3732977@news.snafu.de>
<3224DB9D.39E8@unitel.co.kr> <503ftq$dg0@unlisys.unlisys.net>
<50pafd$3pb@ari.ari.net> <32318DA2.6D50@worldnet.att.net>
<512ct6$7dh@news2.cais.com> <3235E6F9.4B5B@worldnet.att.net>
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:08:57 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net)
wrote:
> The burden of proof does not fall to me in that I am not the one claiming
> to be the Messiah. Moon is not the Messiah by any definition.
Well, if the Messiah is just a man who can walk on two legs, he
meets that criterion. So, it does matter what your criterion is.
Since there is no commonly accepted idea of what the Messiah is,
I would like to know what you mean by the statement "Rev. Moon is
not the Messiah", other than to hurl invective.
> Let's not confuse the issue here. What Sebold did was call Tilman
> a Nazi without basis of fact. I call Convicted Felon Sun Myung Moon
> a criminal because that is what he is.
I do not defend Mike Sebold's behavior in any way, In fact, I want
to distance myself from it. He does not represent me or my faith.
> He was convicted in a court of law. He is also delusional because
> the poor man thinks he is the Messiah.
Well, he was convicted in a court of law, but what does that prove?
Martin Luther King and many other great men were jailed and convicted.
So was Andrei Sakharov. So what? Look who did the convicting! They
convicted him to shut him up and get him out of the country, but
they failed. Rev. Moon was offered his freedom if he would just
shut up and leave the country and never come back. He refused the
offer.
> The only reason you think he is the Messiah is because he
> has told you he is the Messiah.
Actually, this is not true. Rev. Moon did not tell me he was the
Messiah, nor did any of his representatives. I came to that conclusion
based on what he taught about God, and sin and salvation, not what
he taught about himself. I first studied the Divine Principle in
Paris in 1977 and in those days, UC members did not tell people
that Rev. Moon was the Messiah. I tend to say it openly now as Rev.
Moon has publicly proclaimed it.
> If he had never said a word about being the Messiah how many church
> members do you think would be calling him the Messiah? Not many I bet.
Most who joined were not taught that Rev. Moon was the
Messiah. Sorry, but you're wrong on that one.
> You should also remember that Moon's value to God is not judged by
> the labels you put on him either.
Correct.
> By the way I don't have a cause to harm.
Really? :-)
> D.Smith
> dsmith1@worldnet.att.net
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Sep 13, 1996 21:25
Subject: Privacy on the Internet
References: <50vsep$6e3@ari.ari.net> <51189g$opg@news2.cais.com>
<51232t$5u8@ari.ari.net>
On 9 Sep 1996 21:43:57 GMT Michael Sebold (msebold@ari.net) wrote:
> Damian J. Anderson (damian@cais2.cais.com) wrote:
> : Whatever you reveal on the net is public information. Whatever
> : other people reveal about you becomes public information too, like
> : it or not. In the long run, the truth will set us all free, so the
> : Internet makes it possible for us to reveal the truth, warts and
> : all.
> Gee Damian:
> I'm afraid that I cannot agree with your position, either legally or
> morally. Morally, I think it is incredibly arrogant of you to claim that
> other members of the UC have no right to privacy merely because they chose
> to relate personal to limited groups of individuals on the internet.
Well, Mike, I did not claim that UC members do not have a right to
privacy. Posting on Usenet, you must understand, is like yelling into a
bullhorn in a crowded public place. It is not my wish or yours, but the
action itself that makes what they say public information.
> This is not to say that you are not a fine fellow in other respects.
> But suppose you were referring to Jews in the days of WWII. Suppose
> you were referring to those persons abused and destroyed in the
> days of Joe McCarthy.
If they want to come and get you, they will. I happen not to be
paranoid. If you don't want to draw attention to yourself, don't
speak in public.
> Many of those persons were rounded up and destroyed by the use
> of certain affiliation lists maintained by the government or by enemy
> groups. I can't believe that you would try to console these persons with,
> "Sorry, they had a right to maintain the lists. Even though you were
> killed or had your life destroyed, dont worry; the truth will eventually
> set you free."
Whatever, if it is a crime in the USA, it does not mean that it is
a crime elsewhere. The Internet has no national boundaries. I am
proud to be associated with Rev. and Mrs. Moon and the Unification
Church, and my name is listed in many Internet guides as the author
of the Unification Home Page. If someone decides to have a pogrom
against Unificationists, I will be among the first to go.
> I know of at least two UC members who have complained of their
> names being on Tilman's name list. Just because you are fond of
> being so open with your name on the internet you do not have the
> moral right to tell these persons that they must consent to their
> private lives being displayed on Tilman's affiliation lists.
Those persons made their names public, mostly on alt.religion.unification,
just as you have.
> This brings us to the next point, the legality of Tilman's list.
> Tilman claims the right to maintain an affiliatin list in the
> context of his Moonie-bashing. He claims that the information
> was all disclosed publically, so no harm.
I do not condone persecution against members of the Unification
Church, but I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Legality in the USA does not matter one iota if he is in Germany.
> It is questionable to me whether a person in this case would lose a cause
> of action for invasion of privacy (of a variety known as false light) just
> because he has disclosed certain personal information in a chat group on
> the internet. In a false light case, the key matters generally are
> whether the defendant has publicized information about the plaintiff that
> would put him in a false light publically, such that would be highly
> offensive to a reasonable person. The argument here to my mind would be
> whether Tilman portrays a Korean newspaper employee in a "highly
> offensive" "false light" when he published to the world a McCarthy-type
> affiliation list connecting the employee to a "FAQ" affiliation list in
> the context of bashing the employee's religion.
Ho-hum.
> The Supreme Court has stated that the public figure exception
> does apply to certain privacy-related torts. (A public figure
> cannot collect in such a case unless he shows the tortfeaser has
> acted with "actual malice", a stiff hurdle to overcome.)
I'm sorry, I am not a lawyer, and I would not know a tortfeaser if
I found one in my soup. And what the US Supreme Court says is
irrelevant. The issue goes beyond national boundaries.
> However, I don't know that this has been specifically applied yet
> to false light cases, and more strongly, I don't know that the
> newspaper employee has really made himself a "public figure" for
> all purposes be simply relating certain personal information to a
> limited number of acquaintances on a small newsgroup like OWC.
Now you are the first to mention OWC on here. I do not belong to
that group of people, and it is not a newsgroup, it is a mailing
list. If you send e-mail to a friend, then you can expect that to
remain confidential, even a group of friends, but when you make it
available to the world through Usenet, all expectations of privacy
are vain. Anyone with the knowhow can look up a history of EVERY
POST that you have EVER MADE to Usenet and read it. Go check out
Deja News. They will soon have their archives dating back to the
1970s. Yes, Usenet has been around even longer than the Internet.
I worked on Usenet back in 1985 when the traffic was delivered by
UUCP.
Look up
http://www.dejanews.com
and do a search for Mike Sebold.
> I cant agree with your assessment of Tilman, or your views on
> what will benefit the UC, so I am afraid that I cannot honor your
> request. I note that many UC members have expressed concern at
> your "spamming" campaign on the internet.
I don't care a fig for what those people think. They are a bunch
of whiners, misanthropes and misfits.
> I have personally thought that, while you may be a little overagressive
> for my tastes (repeated postings to alt.religion.athiest?), you
> have taken your lumps and kept it up.
I relish a fight. Rev. Moon told us to go out and make good trouble.
That is my speciality, making trouble. And if the Unification Church
as it has stood for Rev. Moon's last 25 years in America has not
gained membership by its former methods, then I intend to spread
the Unification faith worldwide, whether or not the paranoid, wimpy
has-beens in the Unification Church approve or not.
> While I have questioned your wisdom, I have kind of admired your
> determination. I am rather astonished that you, of all persons,
> choose to attack me for being agressive in this instance.
I have not attacked you personally, I merely state that you don't
have a case for complaint, if you made yourself a public figure by
your own statements in public.
Sincerely and emphatically,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Sep 13, 1996 20:33
Subject: What is the Messiah?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
References: <32318DA2.6D50@worldnet.att.net>
<510leu$e50@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3235E84D.1E15@worldnet.att.net>
On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:14:37 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net)
wrote:
> EdPoor wrote:
> >
> > Well, whether Rev. Moon is the Messiah depends on (a) what the Messiah
> > should teach and (b) what the Messiah should do. I'd like to start another
> > thread to discuss just this point.
> > Ed I like this kind of thread.
> Let me start by saying I think the Messiah should stop calling himself the
> Messiah. If he truely is the Messiah then this designation will come to
> him naturally. All of us will come to see him as such on our own. I also think
> the Messiah should not make guns.
Jesus did not start out by calling himself the Messiah, but ended
up making claims that he was the "Light of the World", the
"Resurrection and the Life", the "Way, the Truth and the Life",
the "Son of Man", the "Good Shepherd", and so on. Now, Rev. Moon
has expressed himself in different terminology. Now either he is
the Messiah, or he ain't. Either way, you don't have any business
telling him how to do his job. If he is not the Messiah, then what
does it matter how he does the job? If he is, you are risking a
lightning bolt as you oppose the living God.
Jesus asked of us that we take up our cross and follow him. Rev.
Moon has done that admirably, and has taught the message that God
revealed to him since 1945. He has been involved in a huge number
of humanitarian works, but has received scarce credit for it, since
the media have demonized him.
And as for guns, I don't think they are inherently good or evil.
Just like computers, or nuclear weapons, or anything else, they can
be used for good or evil.
> You're turn.
Y-o-u-r t-u-r-n.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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3104 Sep 14, 1996 14:34
From: Paula Lucier
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
Subject: Re Messiah
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 08:34:38 -0500
Xref: news2.cais.com talk.religion.misc:254541 alt.religion.unification:4397
>Subject: > MESSIAH
> Date:
Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:35:32 -0500
> From:
> Oliver Zarate
>Organization: > Texas Instruments
>Newsgroups:
> talk.religion.misc
>I thought this topic to be interesting. According to the dictionary,
>the non-biblical definition of messiah is one who is the liberator
>or deliverer. The biblical term is defined as the anticipated deliver
>and king of the Jews. Now realizing that Christianity broke of
>from the Jewish faith, we must do away with the notion that the
>Messiah,
>if there is one at this time, must be Jewish. So from an unbiased per-
>spective and with no knowledge of Rev. Moon one can say, yes he could
>be the Messiah. However the statement also hold true for me to say that
>any other person is also the Messiah. Once you start to do a research
>on Rev. Moon however and people who have formally been with his
>organization, you might begin to question not only his messiahship,
>but also his validity as a teacher of the faith.
Based on what? What have you come across in your "research" that leads
you to question either Rev. Moon or the Unification Church? Better still
please ask your questions.
> Although I don't
>agree with everything that The Christian Research Institute puts out
>I think that they would be a good and certainly crediable resource on
>learning more on the Unification Church.
Wouldn't it seem that the Unification Church itself would be a more
"credible" source for finding information about the church than an
organization whose sole function is to judge and discredit people it
doesn't agree with? Or perhaps talking to someone who is a member of the
church?
>Also try to find some quotes
>from speeches he gave during the 70's. I think no matter one's faith is
>there should be an endless search for truth. And yes, it is okay to
>question. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I have to agree with you there, questions inevitably lead to more
questions and to a search of truth, which is a good thing. It means
people have not closed off their minds and hearts to the possibility
that God may be doing something they don't expect.
> I will admmit, I do not
>know enough about the Unification Church to disprove it's validity,
>but I do know enough to question it. At the same time I might be wrong.
>I seek only to get people to think for themselves and not have religion
>spoon fed to them.
>See ya
>Odog
Again, you seem to be asking some questions with a somewhat open mind,
which I commend you for. However, I would suggest a different "excellent
site for more info" :
http://www.unification.net
I would also suggest dialoque with some
church members in the unification newsgroup or email. I would be happy
to talk with you as well.Paula
Sep 14, 1996 14:47
Subject: Speakers at Unification sponsored events
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
References: <32372c1d.18988835@news.snafu.de> <323AAF9D.1EC9@epix.net> <323ADB8A.32DB@worldnet.att.net>
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On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:21:30 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net)
wrote:
> Wow, you do lead a sheltered life. Ford, Kemp and Bush are three examples
> of mouths for hire. I bet they wouldn't have been there if they had to
> do it for free.
Perhaps, you did not know Dennis, that George Bush has donated his speaking
honorarium to charity from at least one of his speaking engagements at
UC-related events. That could hardly be motivated by money.
Perhaps you have led a life so immersed in skepticism, so that you cannot
see the good in another soul. That is very sad.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 14, 1996 15:01
Subject: Re: What is the Messiah?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
References: <32318DA2.6D50@worldnet.att.net>
<510leu$e50@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3235E84D.1E15@worldnet.att.net>
<51cujq$ipc@news2.cais.com> <323AD3E6.7B25@worldnet.att.net>
On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:48:54 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> Damian J. Anderson wrote:
> > Jesus did not start out by calling himself the Messiah, but ended
> > up making claims that he was the "Light of the World", the
> > "Resurrection and the Life", the "Way, the Truth and the Life",
> > the "Son of Man", the "Good Shepherd", and so on. Now, Rev. Moon
> > has expressed himself in different terminology. Now either he is
> > the Messiah, or he ain't. Either way, you don't have any business
> > telling him how to do his job. If he is not the Messiah, then what
> > does it matter how he does the job? If he is, you are risking a
> > lightning bolt as you oppose the living God.
> I'm not to worried about lightning bolts hitting me. Moon is a
> fraud. He doesn't come close to being a Messiah.
Of course, I was talking about lightning metaphorically. But you still
have not given me a rational basis for your argument or your criteria
for discerning true from false messiahs.
> > Jesus asked of us that we take up our cross and follow him. Rev.
> > Moon has done that admirably, and has taught the message that God
> > revealed to him since 1945. He has been involved in a huge number
> > of humanitarian works, but has received scarce credit for it, since
> > the media have demonized him.
> >
> > And as for guns, I don't think they are inherently good or evil.
> > Just like computers, or nuclear weapons, or anything else, they can
> > be used for good or evil.
> A man of peace should not make guns.
A man of peace is well advised to walk softly and carry a big stick,
though of course, Theodore Roosevelt, who coined the phrase, was accused
of being a warmonger. Because of a great superiority in nuclear weapons,
the USA never had to fight the USSR directly. That was a wise policy,
and one which Rev. Moon supported. In fact, through the Washington Times,
he consistently advised Pres. Reagan to build up the US defenses and
even SDI, so that finally the evil empire collapsed.
Peace through strength is wise. Those who remain weak and relying upon
the goodwill of others are fools in the evil world we live in. Peace is
to be found in the hearts of men and women, and not until there can be
mutual trust and respect in a relationship of familial love can we lower
our guard against evil tyrants. So, a man of peace is well advised to
be strongly defended. Then he never needs to fight a war.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 15, 1996 00:14
Subject: Re: What is the Messiah?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <51cb7u$t4d@krypto.zippo.com>
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On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 21:59:58 GMT piedtech (piedtech@intrlink.com) wrote:
> We are warned about false prophets and false Messiahs in great detail
> by the very book that the unification church says it supports . Now if
> you support and believe this book how can you interpet it diffrently ?
> I would venture a guess that you have not read it cover to cover
> before or during your belonging to the group .
> If you have then we can have a scriptual discussion about false
> messiahs .
> jim
I have read the Bible from cover to cover at least 3 times, and have
studied some parts in much greater detail.
And you know, it says that we will know them by their fruits.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 15, 1996 00:37
Subject: Those who leave the Unification Church
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <1279.6817T1371T451@shell.portal.com> <51fl0m$284@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: Unification Church
On 14 Sep 1996 21:09:42 -0400 BILTHECHEF (bilthechef@aol.com) wrote:
> What do they do to you if a person trys to leave the moonie religion?
In most cases, nothing. Many of those who leave do so over time by
drifting away, so that it is often not even noticed, except by their
closest friends. Then, what happens depends on their friends. My
approach to those who have left on amicable terms is to treat them as
friends. Those who have left on belligerent terms, I usually let them
cool off, and then treat them as friends, when the opportunity arises.
I have had the opportunity to speak to several backslidden members of
the Unification Church. They often have some kind of resentment to one
person or another, and because of that one person, leave the faith. The
solution is usually to help them mend relationships with people if at
all possible, and to encourage them back to a diligent life of prayer
and observance of tradition. When people lose discipline in their personal
life, it is very common for them to become cloudy spiritually, rather
than clear, then God becomes a concept, and carnal desire becomes
insuperable. Then follows the dark night of the soul. It is not unique
to Unificationist spiritual experience, but has been documented through
centuries of the human search for God, the ultimate source of the
Universe, and the quest to unite with Him.
Even then, many of those who leave come back at some later date. Many
of them have contacted me by e-mail as a result of my presence on Usenet
and the Web. I am usually able to put them in touch with church members
near where they live, whichever part of the world they happen to be in.
ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 15, 1996 23:58
Subject: Mind control or seduction?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
References: <323ADC41.209D@worldnet.att.net>
<51eush$cr@news2.cais.com> <323BA310.3162@worldnet.att.net>
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:32:48 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net)
wrote:
> Damian:
> I think you mean deprogrammer. Have you ever met an exit counselor?
> Have you ever witnessed an exit counseling?
No, I have not, and I don't need to. Unless you were to include the
group of friends who greeted me when I came home after my first contact
with the Unification Church and proceeded to stay uninvited at my home
for days to harangue me about my new-found faith. They had the tacit
approval of my parents but I did not want them there. I guess that comes
close. It is based on a lie and the arrogance that one person can decide
for another to renounce their chosen path of faith. I guess it is the
Devil's evangelism. Needless to say, I was as stubborn and determined
then as I am now, and did not bow to their pressure.
> Do you believe there is such a thing as mind control
> or coercive persuasion?
I don't believe that it is possible to control someone's mind against
their will, but that it is possible to seduce people into believing in
an idea that can be harmful to them. A prime example of that in my view
is MTV. In that case, people with flaccid minds take the path of least
resistance, and follow the mob of lemmings rushing to their doom. Those
who follow a life of faith on the other hand require immense internal
fortitude to resist the carnal hedonistic secular pressures of the
Godless world around them. So it was with Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus
and all the heroes of faith. They had to swim against the tide of their
society. Only dead fish go with the flow.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 16, 1996 00:16
Subject: Re: Speakers at Unification sponsored events
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <32372c1d.18988835@news.snafu.de> <323AAF9D.1EC9@epix.net> <323ADB8A.32DB@worldnet.att.net> <51eulh$cr@news2.cais.com> <323BA11A.16BD@worldnet.att.net>
Organization: Unification Church
Distribution:
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:24:26 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> I did hear something about him giving some money to charity. Why didn't he
> give it all to charity if he was dedicated to the cause? BTW Bush's nephew
> who is a member of the church, what is his name?
He did not start out being a believer. He originally spoke at our event
because a friend asked him to. The friend was Wes Pruden, the head man
at the Washington Times. After coming to speak at just one Women's
Federation for World Peace event, he was so moved by it that he decided
to bring his wife, so that they have both come to believe in the cause
that we promote.
I don't know his nephew's name.
This week, Brian Mulrooney of Canada and Maureen Reagan have been
accompanying Mrs. Moon on a speaking tour of Japan. I was with Rev. and
Mrs. Moon for 10 days in Alaska, starting August 25. They are in fine
form. Unification Theological Seminary graduates had a 7 day retreat
and then 3 days of fishing. I went ocean fishing with Rev. Moon, though
not on his boat. The biggest fish we caught was a 180 lb halibut.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 16, 1996 00:24 art15
This is a rather eloquent defense of Unificationism on
the net from an unknown person. I don't even know if
he is a UC member! :-)
From: hrobin153@aol.com (HRobin153)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification
Subject: re: please prove...doing it on the superhiway
Date: 15 Sep 1996 23:27:02 -0400
>>please prove that Mr. Moon is the messiah
>>Ok folks Since you imply that this is somthing that you
>>can handle then let's do it here and now
>>jim
1. i like all three, but use the new international;
2. & 3. i love a challenge--if this doesn't count then i'll
go back and dig up the appropriate bible quotes.
there are many bible quotes that support my belief that moon
is messiah, but none state: "when christ returns his name
will be moon.' they just indicate that when christ returns
he won't be recognized by many of those who have been
waiting for him, but he will do what God has wanted --see
israel's response to jesus' interpretation of the old
testament. a very similar situation will take place at the
'second coming'; those who have been waiting for him won't
recognize him because he won't be or do what is expected.
folks didn't recognize elijha when he returned as john the
baptist--and since everybody knew j/b was to return before
christ they concluded that jesus was not the one and they
needed to wait for another. unfortunately although they had
eyes they couldnot see the way God was working in society.
now-a-days everybody is looking for christ to return, but
most expect somekind of bizarre event that will clearly
indicate the time, place, and christ when he returns.
although i don't believe in reincarnation, i do believe in
sucession of missions toward the goal of fulfilling the will
of God. (adam was supposed to fulfill the 3blessings--grow
up, have a family, start a business--but he didn't grow up
before he started his family and started a business. jesus
grew up, but didn't get the chance to have a family or start
a business--but he did do more than adam to loosen satan's
grip on the world. and because he punched a hole in satan's
domain through which truth seekers could transcend the evils
of the world, a base was laid upon which God's ideal could
continue to expand.) the base expanded through time until
the opportunity arose for christ to return.
what was left to complete (and this is where moon comes in),
well, the 3blessings had to be completed. someone had to
become one with God's historical desire for mankind to be
the lords of creation; the person had to truly believe that
he was/is a child of God and grow to true maturity; because
of the ancient spiritual debts the man had to find a woman
who could be raised/trained as a true child of God, then
marry her and have children who could be raised to be true
children of God, and of course he would have to have the
cash-flow to support his family.
because a simple plan went unfulfilled for so long, the
returning christ has a few other things to do. had adam and
eve done the right thing everyone on earth would be a part
of the true family of God due to the natural expansion of
the population (this sort of side steps the idea that a&e
may not have been the only people on earth at "that time",
but cut me a little slack); had the mother of jesus found a
bride for him, he could have had a flesh and blood family--
he would have also adopted the 12tribes and raised them as
his children--passing on what he knew about the heart of
God. and then the true and the adopted children would have
headed for the big city (rome) and through the spread of
good ideas the romans would have been adopted. since they
were a global power they would have spread the true family
of God all over the known world--quickly ushering in heaven
on earth. but jesus was assasinated by those who didn't
believe in life after the death of the physical body.
as jesus's spiritual family (christians) developed and
spread, God worked behind the scene to create a national
home for jesus's spiritual family (america). once america
was in place the real work of sending the christ could
begin. i don't know why korea was chosen (no pun intended),
except for the suffering they went throughout their 5000
years of history--apparently they were invaded numerous
times but could never get it together enough to invade
someone else. there's also the rumor that koreans are one
of the 10 lost tribes of israel, etc, etc; (i would examine
these claims more closely if there were someone from another
country that might be the messiah...)
anyway it makes sense that the returned christ would have a
hard way to go--who would believe him, and since jesus
suffered a lot, it makes sense that the returned christ
would have to suffer as much as jesus did, but remain alive
and determined to fulfill the 3blessings. on top of that he
would have to adopt not just the 12tribes, but all mankind
in preparation for restoring the cosmos back to God.
ok, ok--most of these ideas came from the moon movement
itself, but the more i researched and thought about the
meaning and purpose of history, the rise and fall of cults
and cultures, myths and mythologies, and human nature, i
came to the realization that moon could be the messiah if he
did a couple of things:
1. if he could represent God's ideal of humanity (be an
ideal man) and be recognized as an ideal man by beings all
over the cosmos;
and
2. teach everyone on earth how to do the same thing; i'm
still learning--practise makes perfect.
if he can do those two things then he will have fulfilled
God's plan for mankind, opened the cosmos for human
exploration and administration, and laid the base for the
eternal cosmic family of God--which will eventually unite
the cosmos and make earth its administrative center, not
because of military might but because earth is where all the
love is coming from.
because of these biblical and historical principles i've
concluded that smm is the messiah. now whether you believe
he's the messiah is up to you.
hamm
huh? what was that?