Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 33
> From: Rich Rubasch
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology,alt.support.ex-cult
Subject: Re: MOONIE SECRET REVEALED!
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:57:04 +0000
To use the early Christian church as a comparison to the
life of a Unificationist is usually my choice, because the
strange and horrible suffering they endured from their
belief in the Messiah of their time (Jesus) is quite similar
to the type of persecution members of the Unification church
receive for their belief in the modern Messiah of our time,
Rev. Moon (my belief).
But it isn't the persecution of believers that I feel is the
problem. It is one of sacrifice.
We have heard how hard Unificationists work, the long hours,
the difficult circumstances...the sacrifice. As Paula
stated in an earlier post, our work is for God's providence,
not Rev. Moon directly. The money that is raised is used,
for the most part, on a local church level. I know this
because I am assistant to the Unification church pastor in
Honolulu. Our work, (I am a video editor and graphics
designer at a non-church private local company) and our
donations, are used primarily on a local level. We have
parenting seminars which actually provide useful and timely
advice for parents or parents-to-be. We are truly proud of
what foundation Rev. Moon has given us to be closer to God
and others. And we study the Divine Principle because it has
deepened our modern day understanding of where we stand in
God's evolving providential time-line. God doesn't stand
still, so Rev. Moon doesn't stand still, and he certainly
doesn't expect us to stand still! Whoever moves with the
Messiah also finds themselves moving with God. It isn't an
easy road to take, and the benefits really stink, but the
rewards are historical and eternal.
Let us all charge forward with our faith and take action
upon it! And let our purpose be peace, unity, and love.
No less.
From: Tim Elder
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
Subject: My own views of the Unification Church and Rev. Moon
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:52:04 +0900
Anton Hein wrote:
>Alright, so you take exception to the fact that someone says your
>church practices so-called "heavenly deception." Fine. Let's cut to
>the chase:
>
>When they evangelize, do Unification Church members always identify
>themselves as members of the Unification Church?
I'd like to point out that you that you are not being entirely honest
here. I took exception to the fact that jarrod@breeze.seas.ucla.edu
(Jarrod J. Williamson) alleged that the Unification Church teaches
deception as some sort of formal doctrine.
Williamson wrote:
> Some cults like Moonies and Hare Krishna's call
> their deception "heavenly deception" or "transcendental trickery".
I know that whatever I say will not be considered to credible by Williamson,
because he is working on the (false) premise that the Unification Church teaches
deceit. It is for this reason that I challenged him as follows:
>if [Williamson] is a fair and liberal minded person, then he will welcome
>our suggestion that he re-examine his statement as it pertains to the
>Unification Church.
But now, you have rephrased the question so that it is to your advantage. You are
now challenging me to say whether all the millions of Unification Church members
worldwide "always" conduct themselves according to a certain standard. For me to
answer that question, I would have to survey all the members around the world. And
if I answer in the affirmative, you would then need find just one member who on one
occasion failed to meet the standard and you would be able to contradict me.
I can say that I always identified myself as a member of the Unification
Church whenever I evangelize. I can also say that every member with whom I
have contact does the same. The person who evangelized me in New York in 1974
certainly made it clear from the start that she was with Rev. Moon.
>
>Do Unification Church members always honestly present - from the start
>- their beliefs on who Sun Myung Moon is?
Again, I and every member with whom I have contact has presented his/her opinion
on this matter honestly. Of course, I'm sure you're aware that different
individuals in the Unification Church can have different opinions regarding Rev.
Moon.
In a recent post to alt.religion.unification, I summarized my own views as
follows:
(Please note that I am placing '>' signs only next to what Dennis Smith wrote. This
is because my news server will not allow me to use so much 'included text.' The
original article was posted on June 7, 1996.)
Dennis Smith wrote:
> This is an excellent suggestion Tim. Can you tell us if you believe Sun Myung
> Moon is the Messiah? If you do believe Sun Myung Moon is the Messiah can you
> explain to us what has convinced you of this.
>
Thanks,
I'd be glad to. I will explain my views in very brief summary.
Do I believe that Rev. Moon is the Messiah? Yes, I do. But it's not Rev. alone.
I believe that Rev. AND Mrs. Moon stand together in the messianic role. On a
different level, I -- and every other person in the world - must fulfill a
certain messianic role -- though on a much smaller scale than that of Rev. and
Mrs. Moon.
I believe that when Rev. Moon was 16 years old, Jesus appeared to him in a vision
one day as he prayed on a mountainside not far from him home in what is today
North Korea. I believe that Jesus asked Rev. Moon to complete the work that he was
forced to leave uncompleted 2,000 years ago, when people refused to heed his call
for repentance and chose, instead, to crucify him. That work, I believe, consists
of building the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and in heaven in accordance with God's
original plan of creation.
What convinced me that Rev. Moon is the Messiah? It was a process that included
both rational thought and prayer. I first came into contact with Rev. Moon's
teachings in October 1974, in New York. My parents were (actually, my father still
is) United Methodist missionaries in Japan, and I was baptized into the United
Methodist Church when I was 11 years old. By the time I graduated from college,
however, I had become disillusioned in the ability of the Methodist Church -- or
any other church, for that matter -- to carry out a ministry that would make a
real difference in peoples' lives around the world.
Rev. Moon has spelled out a vision for the kingdom of heaven on earth and in heaven,
and is devoting his life to the accomplishment of that vision. That convinces me
that he -- together with Mrs. Moon -- is the Messiah.
I have had a number of occasions to meet with Rev. Moon. On the personal level, he
impresses me as a man of love. He preaches true love, and from every indication that
I have, he practices what he preaches.
I am more apt to think of Rev. and Mrs. Moon more in the context of "True Parents."
This means I believe that they are fulfilling the parental role in relation to the
rest of humanity that Adam and Eve would have been able to fulfill, had they not
committed sin but had grown to fulfill God's purpose of creation.
I suspect that you may disagree with some/much/perhaps even all of what I've said.
I'd be interested to hear your views.
Tim Elder
(end of June 7 post)
Once again, Anton Hein wrote:
>
>Does Sun Myung Moon's "Divine Principle" contradict the Bible?
The world Christian community does not, unfortunately, agree on a single unified
interpretation of the Bible. If there were such a unified interpretation, I think
it's safe to assume that there wouldn't be nearly as many denominations in the world
as there are today.
For example, many Christians believe that Mary gave birth to Jesus as a 'virgin,'
i.e. without having sexual intercourse with a man. Other Christians have interpreted
the world 'virgin' to mean 'young woman', thus leaving open the question of how Mary
came to be pregnant.
So, when you ask me to tell you whether the Divine Principle contradicts the Bible,
I'm not sure whose intrepretation of the Bible you want me to use as my reference
point. If it is yours that I should use, then you will have to explain your
interpretation to me.
There are a few comments I'd like to make without waiting for your answer on that.
As a member of the Unification Church, I don't believe that the revelation of God's
truth to humankind stopped with the completion of the New Testament.
In reference to how Mary came to be pregnant with Jesus, Rev. Moon teaches very
definitely that Mary became pregnant through sexual intercourse with a man. That is,
Jesus had a biological father. In a speech to an audience of mostly non-Unification
Churh members in Washington last April 16, Rev. said: "Jesus was conceived in the
house of Zechariah." Where does it say this in the Bible? I don't think it does. Then
where does Rev. Moon get this? I believe he received this information as a revelation
from God.
(The speech I refer to is available through Damian Andersen's homepage. The direct
link to the speech itself is http://www.unification.net/1996/960416.html )
I believe that God didn't stop revealing His truth to humankind as soon as the final
period was fixed to the final sentence of the final book included in the New
Testament. I also believe that God is consistent. He is one. And even though the
expressions of God's truth can take many forms, His truth itself is one. Even though
people may disagree on how to comprehend or intrepret the expressions of His truth --
such as the Bible -- His truth itself is one.
For me to grow in my understanding of God's truth, I have to constantly listen to
the opinions of those who disagree with me and use these opinions to challenge my own
assumptions. I look forward to this conversation with you, because I'm sure it will help
me in my own ongoing quest to better understand God's truth.
Tim Elder
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 10:11:27 -0400
To: Unification Evangelism List
Cc: Unification Texts
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
Subject: A suggestion
I have been posting Rev Sun Myung Moon's words and Divine Principle in the
newsgroups now for over 18 months and this has garnered considerable
attention for the Unification Home Page and for Father's teachings. Many
people have come to know about the web page through this form of
promotion. I did it in the French speaking newsgroups and some in Spanish
and Portuguese too, and of course in English. However, I do not want to
do it in languages that I cannot read and write, so I would request that
those interested begin posting Unificationist materials on the newsgroups
in their own languages.
You can post small excerpts from Father's words, serializing speeches and
books, so that people have an opportunity to read Father's words and also
to be constantly reminded of our presence on the newsgroups and on the
Web. Perhaps Alexey would consider posting in Russian, and Robert Granc in
Hungarian, and one of the many Spanish speakers in Spanish. I know that
Jean-Philippe Odent is active in the French speaking newsgroups. This way,
we can reach out to many language groups.
My firm belief is that resurrection, coming from spiritual death to
spiritual life, comes as a result of the Word of God as the Divine
Principle teaches. So, if we want to bring people to God and to the
Blessing that He offers, I would be very pleased to see people copying
this strategy worldwide as it appears to have brought considerable
results. Now, there are two of those three couples interested in
attending the Blessing, thousands of people have come to a knowledge of
the Principle, and several have become disciples of True Parents. From
small acorns, the greatest oaks grow.
In True Parents' Names,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Thu Aug 15 10:21:56 EDT 1996
Subject: Re: Unification Church
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <4ur27n$f6q@clark.zippo.com>
On Tue, 13 Aug 1996 22:05:20 GMT Roberto Couce (robertoj@cs.com.uy) wrote:
> The presence of Moon Sect have been welcomed all over the world
> because the core of the message fits with good moral rules.
> However. the strong and fast developement is , in my opinion, due to
> the huge amount of money and not to the thoughts.
> Is very important to know , where this money is coming from.
> Wainting for replies.
> R.Couce
Well, Roberto,
Anything that wants to be successful in the world needs to have
both good ideas and money. The Unification Church has done a lot
of good in the countries where it has been allowed to operate. In
Uruguay, probably more than in most places, the Unification Church
has invested large amounts of money, such as in the building of a
large modern hotel in downtown Montevideo. We have also bought land
there and elsewhere in Latin America and intend to develop industries
that can benefit the country itself, rather than just make profit
for us.
We would like to develop a model of economy that does not exploit,
but seeks to promote the common welfare. You will find that many
South American political and religious leaders are very inspired
by Rev. Moon's plans for economic development. But he warns people
not to go the way of the USA and to avoid consumer materialism,
and to develop and strengthen the family and the religious life of
the people. Otherwise, the evils brought on by affluence coupled
with immorality are devastating for a country. Affleunce in a people
of faith and principle is good, But affluence in the hands of people
whose main aim is the pursuit of personal pleasure produces the
evils of the culture of "drugs, sex and rock and roll."
--
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 22:24:26 -0400
From: damian@unification.net
To: Unification Texts
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Internet evangelism
On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, B.E. wrote:
> Dear Damian,
>
> Do you think it would be a good idea to advertise our Unification Homepage
> in local newspapers. Papers such as the Pennysaver, Thrifty nickel etc.
> A small classified add is only $ 7 dollar and can reach 50000 to 200000 people
> per edition. If we would do this worldwide how many people would have
> an opportunity to find out about True Parents and the Blessing.
>
> ITN B.E.
Hello B.E.,
I would try anything that you think has a chance of success. Go
ahead. You could make it a monthly offering as a trial run for the
next year until the Blessing to promote Father's words online by
advertising it in local publications. Thanks for the suggestion.
Put your name and phone number in the ad too, in case people want
to ask you questions about the content. Then, maybe you can raise
up a few disciples of your own. And let me know how it goes.
I see the work of the mass media evangelism as rather impersonal,
but it reaches far more people than one-on-one evangelism. When
people have an interest and want to talk about it, then they can
connect with people local to themselves and I cannot possibly do
that for all the readers. So, I am happy to do what I can do and
let others handle the personal contact and raising people in the
faith. It is comparable to the Billy Garaham crusade. They come
through town like a whirlwind and stir up people's hearts and minds
and then it is the local churches who then nurture and raise those
new seedlings of spiritual life and make them the stalwart men and
women of faith who can make a difference in our world.
ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:05:58 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: UNIFICATION-TEXTS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: unification church :christian or cult
On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, piedtech wrote:
> It is apparent that this person either has no knowledge of this or is
> spouting the party line in order to keep off the street selling the
> flowers , fish , etc .
Maybe I know a whole lot better than you. I have been a member of the
Unification Church for 19 years, and I think I am more qualified than
you to comment on the internal workings of the church. The Washington
DC church which I attend is supported by members tithing, much as in
other churches. Members of the local church run businesses in printing,
publishing, restaraunts, florists, computers, video-processing, property
management, construction, hairdressing, and many others. Others work
for employers.
> My information comes direct from court documents , and exmembers that
> I know including people who were national leaders .
Phooey! People can say anything they please in court and it is not
necessarily true.
> The information I havce is correct period . Btw how do you explain the
> induction centers that are in the middle of nowhere that have barbed
> wire around the compound etc.
Yeah, pull my other leg. It's got bells on it! This year, we had
conferences for minsters entitled True Family Values Ministry, and they
were held at a Sheraton hotel in the Virginia suburbs of Washington DC.
So much for barbed wire! :-) We have sometimes had country retreats,
though not this summer, and we usually rent a church camp site from
other churches. So much for barbed wire! You are such a joke, "Rev".
> Rev. J. A. Martin
> damian@cais.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) wrote:
> >> jim
>
> >So speaks another fountain of ignorance.
Damian Anderson - America Online +1-703-453-4045 W +1-301-921-0082 H
damian@aol.net damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:07:37 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: UNIFICATION-TEXTS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: First couples of the 1997 Blessing in Korea
Courtesy of: Tim Elder
A blessing was held in Seoul on Saturday, Aug. 10. According to a press
release from the Korean Unification Church, 318 couples participated,
including seven from Japan and one from Taiwan. The release says this
was the "first Korean ceremony of the 3.6 million couple International
Holy Wedding". Apparently, the plan is to have a series of these
small-scale ceremonies -- in other countries as well -- during the
period leading up to THE BIG ONE in Washington next year.
The full text of the release, if you have Korean software, is available
at
http://www.tongil.or.kr/NS/ns13.htm
This is part of the official web site of the Unification movement in
Korea. To view the main page, go to http://www.tongil.or.kr
Tim Elder
--
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists:
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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 23:44:03 -0400
From: damian@unification.net
To: Unification Texts
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, rec.sport.olympics, atl.olympics,
rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: UNews: Unificationist Cyclist in Paralympics
Pier Angelo Beltrami is a member of the Unification Church of Washington DC.
---
Maryland Cyclist Pedals After Paralympic Gold
Man Already Holds Silver, Bronze Medals
By Angela Couloumbis
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 15 1996; Page M06
The Washington Post
When PierAngelo Beltrami first started cycling, he just wanted to
lose weight. Little did he know that eight years down the road he
would have won two Paralympic medals and would be working toward
his third.
Next week, the owner of a Bethesda design firm and a member of the
U.S. Disabled Cycling Team, will be competing in Atlanta's Paralympic
Games, the premier international event for physically disabled
athletes. He'll be trying to pedal his way to his first gold medal.
"This has always been a dream of mine," said Beltrami, 47, who was
training for the Paralympics last week in Allentown, Pa. "I feel
honored to be on the U.S. team once again."
Beltrami not only made the team but also set a world record during
the time trials for this year's games by winning the 200-meter race
in just over 14 seconds (14.294). He also set the national record
by finishing the four-kilometer race in just over 6 minutes, 11
seconds (6:11:94).
Beltrami said the key to his success is being able to pedal without
his prosthetic leg. Because it stays attached through suction, the
moisture generated during exercise could cause the limb to slip
off. Beltrami has used a single-pedal bike since he began competing
in 1988.
The Hagerstown, Md., resident uses a special pedal with a clip to
attach his shoe. Over the years, the challenge for Beltrami has
been to perfect the circular motion needed to push the bike forward
at the high speeds required for racing.
So when Beltrami is not working, he's usually pedaling with what
he calls his "able-bodied, cyclist" friends. He tries to leave his
office about 6 p.m. so he can train for three hours every night,
usually along Beach Drive.
"When you train with able-bodied riders, you learn to be alert,"
Beltrami said. "You learn how to ride in a pack and how to keep up
with them. But I should say that my riding partners have been
super-kind and very understanding and have given me elbow room to
ride and, sometimes, keep up with them."
This is the third time Beltrami will be participating in the
Paralympics.
He won a silver at the 1992 Paralympics in Barcelona and a bronze
medal at the 1988 Paralympics in Korea, where he was the only U.S.
cyclist to win a medal.
"He's an example to young and old alike," said Kirk Bauer, executive
director of Disabled Sports USA.
For Beltrami, cycling wasn't only about setting an example. It was
about getting on with his life after a motorbike accident and a
botched operation in his native Italy resulted in gangrene and the
amputation of his right leg below the knee.
Beltrami, who was born in Milan, was 19 at the time of the accident
and described himself as a "wild, energetic and somewhat selfish"
teenager. He said that even though it took a long time to figure
out how to live with his disability, he never stopped thanking God
to be alive.
"After the accident, I never took anything for granted," Beltrami
said. "I felt that since I lived, losing my leg was a small price
to pay for just being alive."
Beltrami, who studied design in Italy, went to New York in 1973 to
visit relatives and landed a job at a graphics firm. He moved to
Washington 15 years later and now runs his own graphics firm in
Bethesda.
The Paralympics began in Rome in 1960 and usually are held in same
the same city or country that hosted the Olympic games. The 1996
Paralympics will begin 12 days after the Olympics' closing ceremonies
and will include 4,000 athletes from more than 100 countries.
@CAPTION: PierAngelo Beltrami, 47, in Paralympic trials. He lost
a leg below the knee after a motorbike accident at age 19.
---
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists:
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Sun Aug 18 01:08:32 EDT 1996
Re: Unification Church and the Baha'i Faith
On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 Ali wrote:
> Continued from the first post.
>
> Unification thought:
>
> HEAVEN AND HELL: We don't see the after life as simply
> having two options - either heaven or hell. There's a multitude
> of varying levels of heaven and hell, depending on one's level
> of spiritual maturity when one dies. The atmosphere of this
> world is "air"; we see the atmosphere of the next life as
> "God's love". To the degree that a person can relate to God's
> love, this determines his spiritual level in the next life.
Relating to God would involve perfecting the various human loves
such as love for parents and elders and God, love for siblings and
peers, the conjugal love for one's spouse, and love for children.
We call these the four great loves, or the four great realms of
the heart.
> Someone that lived an evil, self centered life feels very
> uncomfortable in the presence of God's love, therefore they
> try to get far away from it. A person that lived a public
> minded life, and lived for the sake of others feels very
> comfortable in the presence of God's love and enjoys to be
> there - this person is in "heaven".
This is a good approximation of what we teach. The Kingdom of Heaven
however is reserved for couples. Without perfecting the love of
man and woman, you cannot enter the highest realms of heaven.
> It's important to note that God does not put anybody in hell.
> When someone dies they feel the absolute standard of good
> and evil and they compare it to their own life - to the degree
> of regret and guilt they feel towards their earthly life, they
> naturally end up in the place they deserve to be in.
Quite so. The scriptures of many religions say that you reap what you sow.
> (While not considered "canon" of the Unification Church,
> most members of the UC like to read books by people like
> Emanuel Swedenborg or Anthony Borgia. While not 100 %
> in agreement with the Unification Principle, their
> descriptions of the after life are considered to be very
> accurate.)
Rev. Moon mentioned in the Divine Principle that Swedenborg revealed
many heavenly secrets about the spiritual world. This is also the
name of one book by Swedenborg, Arcana Caelestia, which is Latin
for Heavenly Secrets. He has also said that most people's descriptions
of the spirit world are partial as they can only see what is at
their level and below. One cannot enter the highest realms of heaven
without being qualified. But a spirit in heaven can descend to
lower levels to help those there. In Buddhism, this is called a
bodhisattva.
> Baha'i thought:
>
> Wow! Again there is very much correspondance! This
> world is compared to our mother's womb. According to
> the Baha'i teachings, in the next world we are not going
> to need physical eyes and ears any more, but we will
> need spiritual qualities which we can acquire in this
> world by following the teachings of God sent to us
> though His Messengers.
The Divine Principle teaches that we have 5 physical senses and 5
spiritual senses. In the spiritual world, we no longer have our
physical body, but the senses of our spirit develop so that we can
relate to those there. Also, it teaches that the natural state of
man without sin is to be able to communicate with the spiritual
world while in the flesh, so that death would no longer seem such
a tragedy if one could communicate at will with departed loved
ones.
> "There is a great difference, however, between the
> condition of a child in his mother's womb and that of
> a person who is living in this world. The unborn
> child is not responsible for his own development
> because he has no choice and cannot help himself in
> any way. But in this world we are given the power to
> choose between right and wrong, good and bad. We
> are, therefore, responsible for our spiritual development,
> and if we fail to grow strong and healthy in spirit, we
> are going to be very unhappy in the next world. This
> state of unhappiness is called hell. If, on the other hand,
> we strive to understand and obey the laws of God, we
> will be preparing for a life of happiness in the next world
> and we will enjoy the state which is spoken of as heaven.
> Baha'u'llah says that heaven is nearness to God and hell
> is being deprived of this bounty." ("The New Garden" by
> Hushmad Fathea'zam, pp.77-78)
Yes, Unificationists would agree with this statement. The life on
earth is the time of exercising responsibility. The time in the
womb is for the formation and development of the physical body,
for which we are NOT responsible, and the life after birth is for
the devlopment of the spirit for which we ARE responsible.
> We continue to progress spiritually after death. "Our
> bodies are given to us so that we may be able to live
> on earth while we prepare for another state of existence
We would agree.
> .... The only thing which will matter to us will be the
> condition of our soul which will continue its existence.
> If we have managed to care for it, we shall be able to
> enjoy the next world, and our progress there will be
> healthy and rapid... if we have neglected the necessary
> preparation while in this life, our progress will be greatly
> retarded, and we shall be in that unhappy state called
> 'hell', especially as we shall know that we were given
> the chance of getting ready for this life, and we refused
> to do anything about it."
> ("The Baha'i Faith" by Gloria Faizi, pp.60-61)
Yes. We will be concerned about the state of our spirit on passing.
Some may also have unfinished business on the earth which will
encourage them to want to come back at some point to finish it.
Such is the reason for what we call "Returning Resurrection". See
chapter 5 of the DP for this:
http://www.unification.net/dp73/dp73-1-5.html Resurrection
For example, Elijah had not completed the work of purifying the
Israelites, so John the Baptist came with the spirit and power of
Elijah to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and to
the wisdom of the just.
> Later on I will discuss some of the differences in these
> topics: fall of man, "devil" or "satan", Jesus, Trinity.
> These differences are not as severe as some may think.
> And you will be interested to see some similarities
> between the UC's doctrine of Three Blessings
> and Salvation again have much in common with the
> teachings of the Baha'i Faith.
Okay, I look forward to it.
> Allah'u'Abha,
Translation please? :-)
> Ali
ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 02:31:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: damian@unification.net
To: Unification Church Internet Evangelism mailing list
Subject: Re: Unification Church and the Baha'i Faith
On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Ali wrote:
> In a message dated 96-08-11 08:32:58 EDT, you write:
>
> << do not know much about what Baha'is think of the Unification
> faith, except that most have not had the benefit of studying it
> with UC members. They are likely to know only what they have learned
> from the media.>>
> In the Baha'i Writings, we are taught to investigate and examine
> the claims of other religions, to delve into their teachings with an open
> and unbiased mind. Really it should foster examination of all of the
> issues to make sure that you are following the truth to the best of your
> abilities. In fact, Baha'is CANNOT make their children become Baha'i.
> It must be the informed, conscious choice of the child. Baha'is CAN, of
> course, teach their children morals and ethics and are supposed to
> teach their children about the Baha'i Faith AS WELL AS the teachings
> and history of other religions.
>
> I have yet to see many Baha'is live up to this standard.
It is a high standard to meet, but it is a noble one. Unification
thought encourages us to educate our children in three areas, in
this order:
(1) Education of heart - love, compassion.
(2) Education of ethical norms - family values, sexual purity, fidelity
(3) Education of genius - intellectual development.
> << Okay, we do the same. We quote from Divine Principle, the Bible
> and Rev. Moon's words, among others in our teachings. In fact, in
> teaching to the Islamic world, teachers of the Divine Principle
> may refer to the Qu'ran. One characteristic of truth is that it is
> eternal, and no matter how much it is attacked and dissected, it
> will remain true. So, analysis and scrutiny are not viewed as bad
> in the Unification faith. After all, we spend a large amount of
> our resources funding interfaith conferences, and conflict resolution
> between various groups. So, Rev. Moon does not fear the ideas of
> others and encourages us to study other faiths, and to elevate them
> with the teaching of Divine Principle. I am sure that there is much
> of mutual benefit to be derived from interfaith dialogue.>>
>
> Please elucidate on how one can elevate the study of other
> faiths with the teaching of Divine Principle. I would benefit from
> this practice.
The Divine Principle is not a doctrine, but a collection of principles
which can be applied to life and to history and to our situation.
By understanding the way in which God has worked in the past, we
can understand how He is working now and will work in the future.
All of human history can be viewed as God's attempt to fulfill his
long-desired and much-thwarted dream to create the Kingdom of God
on Earth.
> << We do not speak about atonement, but restoration. However, the
> theologians among us may know of a distinction. My understanding
> is that Jesus atoned for the sin of humanity, but that it was
> insufficient to create the Kingdom of God because he did not
> establish a true family and establish the ideal of True Parents,
> which we consider to be his primary mission.>>
>
> After reading the Exposition of the Divine Principle, I agree with this
> conclusion. To tell you the truth - my initial dismay at Christianity
> was based on several things: 1) the doctrine of the blood atonement
> of Jesus for original sin - it did not seem sufficient - in fact my
> perception was that sacraments such as the Mass were taken to
> extremes that almost smacked of ritual cannibalism,
It is clear that the salvation offered by Christianity is incomplete
or else we would have seen a lot more perfected Christians, and
they would have given birth to children without sin if they were
without sin themselves.
> 2) the "paganizing" of Christianity (I'm sure you know what I refer to),
Christianity adopted many pagan practices and beliefs, such as the
belief in the gods of Roman times being born of virgins.
> 3) the doctrine of a benevolent God who would condemn his
> children to an eternal Hell (I always pictured Hell more as a hospital
> or reformatory),
Yes, well, hell is only hell while you are content to be there. As
soon as you realize that you are in hell and decide to do something
about it, your hell changes when you repent, and rays of hope come
to the penitent sinner, just as hope and forgiveness came to the
prodigal son who was in a hell of his own making. On repenting,
the path for self-restoration and regeneration opened up.
> and 4) the traditional concept of the Trinity.
> These were my problems with "mainstream
> Christian" thought.
Well, the Unification idea of the Trinity is that each husband-wife
couple forms a trinity with God. In Jesus' case, since he did not
have a wife, the Holy Spirit took the place of the feminine aspect
of God that was missing in his life. The perfection of God only
takes place when He incarnates in the human couple, who then come
to embody God's nature and manifest the ideal of True Parents. That
is not only for the first True Parents to manifest, but for every
couple. That is our goal, our ideal and our aspiration. God cannot
perfect love without us. That us why He absolutely needs human
beings. Love is not love without a partner to reciprocate. So even
the eternal, immutable, almighty God cannot perfect love without a
perfected partner. That is why he craves to relate to humans who
have achieved their divine potential and suffers so grievously when
we fall short, as He is then savior to us when He wants to be lover
and beloved to us.
> What I have found is that it is comparatively easy to
> justify number manipulation from scriptural texts, etc.. especially
> posthumously. Therefore, I now take the approach of "judging them by
> their fruits".
Yes, even the devil can quote scripture, just as you can fiddle
statistics. As Mark Twain said, there are three kinds of lies,
white lies, damned lies and statistics. Likewise, you can make the
most absurd points by distorting the original intent of scriptural
passages. The prime example is justifying slavery with scripture.
> < realm free of Satan's accusation AFTER THEIR DEATH, Paradise, but
> while they are in the body, they must deal with sin in their body.
> God desires for us to overcome sin in this world and create heaven
> here. One characteristic of the Kingdom of Heaven is that it is
> populated with those who have accomplished the family ideal. Paradise
> is a place for single people. For the conjugal love relationship to last
> for eternity, it must have the Blessing given by God through the
> True Parents.>>
>
> Okay, so this explains why the Blessing is the primary "sacrament"
> of the UC so to speak, since the Kingdom of Heaven is based upon
> "eternal marriage and eternal family relationships." Please define
> exactly what the family ideal is.
The description of the ideal family could take an eternity. Rev.
Moon waxes endlessly on the subject, and especially the man-woman
relationship. However, one could say that the ideal family is one
where the parents love God, one another and the children as God
loves us. The ideal family is one where God's love incarnates and
manifests itself in the parents, so that for the children, their
parents are truly God's representative, even God's bodily form.
Also, the ideal family is not merely inward looking, but seeks to
expand its love to ever greater levels, to the society and the
world around.
> This has really clarified for me why
> I haven't seen a Christian without original sin. Question - what about
> Blessed children - could they reaffirm the Original Sin in themselves?
> Could they then choose to form a four position foundation with
> Satan?
Yes, just because a person is born without sin does not mean that
they are automata and cannot sin. Adam and Eve were created perfectly
pure and without sin, and lived in a pristine environment, yet they
sinned. Children born today of True Parents, or even just plain
faithful parents have a very hard time staying pure and God-like
due to the extreme corruption of the world in which we live. We
believe that after one's faith and love reach a certain point, and
the mind and body are totally one acting on God's love, then one
can no longer sin, as the person would feel God's pain and the pain
of those around him as his own. In the interim, we must be watchful,
and exercise a large degree of self-discipline. Similarly, when
the love of man and woman is perfected, it will last forever. Rev.
Moon has compared it to launching a rocket into space. It takes a
vast amount of effort to get it into space, but zero effort to keep
it in orbit, once there.
> << This service is intended for us to keep in mind the promises we
> have made to God on a weekly basis. In fact, I do pledge service
> daily, though not always at the 5 am time, though I have done it on
> time for days or weeks at an end on time when my schedule permitted.
> My family prays together every night before going to bed, and every
> morning when we get up. Our kids are so united with this routine
> that they will ask for us to pray together so that they can go to
> school. They don't like to miss it.>>
>
> Is it okay for a couple who is not Blessed to recite the Family Pledge?
> Could I try it out without defiling it in some way?
Please recite the family pledge as often as you want. If you want
to promise to God to fulfill that Pledge, please do so and mean it
with all your heart. That is no defilement. Those who say it and
do quite the opposite, they defile the pledge. But then, hypocrisy
is a great weakness of many religious people. The higher your
standards are, the easier it is to fall short of them! :-)
> << The Unification faith teaches that all religions will be unified at
> the time of the return of Christ by the revealing of a new expression
> of the Truth which will elevate all religions and remove their
> reasons for disunuity. We teach that the character of revelation
> is progressive, and that people continue to grow in love and wisdom
> for eternity. God also grows in love and wisdom. God has been
> searching for an object of His love who would reciprocate it to
> Him. That is why He created us.>>
>
> My question: what would you say the purpose of all of these
> different religions was? What was the role of Islam? the Baha'i
> Faith?
The purpose of all religions is to assist God's overall purpose of
creating one unified world family where all people are in God's
image. God created many religions according to the time, place,
circumstances and level of the people to whom the religion as
revealed.
> << It is more up to each one to discover the value of Rev. Sun Myung
> Moon as the "Lord of the Second Advent". As Jesus said to John,
> "Go back and tell John what you see and hear, the blind see again,
> and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, and the
> dead are raised to life and the Good News is proclaimed to the
> poor; and happy is the man who does not lose faith in me."
> (Matt 11:4-5)>>
>
> Good, you mean that "by their fruits ye shall know them"? So tell
> me what you "see and hear".
Yes, that is exactly what I mean. I intend to report on as many of
the activities of Rev. Moon and his organizations as I can. However,
for much of that, I have to rely on others. I hope to give a rather
complete report soon of the Family Federation for World Peace
conference in Washington DC, as soon as one friend of mine e-mails
me the report.
> < that the Messiah was supposed to come 400 years after Luther, or
> around 1517 + 400 = 1917, or when the historical periods had
> concluded, around 1930. However, that is merely an indicator that
> this is the time of the coming of the Lord. It does not indicate
> that HE is the one above others, merely that he was born around
> the right time. Read what he says, look at what he does, and pray
> hard for God to answer your question. but I say, Rev. Sun Myung
> Moon is the Messiah that we have long awaited, along with his wife
> Hak Ja Han Moon who is his constant companion. The book of Zechariah
> 4:1-14 talks of TWO anointed ones (Christs) and Revelation 11:1-13
> talks of two witnesses.>>
>
> Kudos. Earlier you have seen my opinion of relying of numbers and
> dates. It is excellent to see someone who is focusing upon the actions
> and words and thoughtful, sincere prayer. Refreshing! I will pray about
> it!
There you go! :-) When I have to make any kind of major decision,
I come back to prayer with renewed enthusiasm and conviction. It
is my lifeline to God and to the source of all true wisdom.
> << Unificationists are not interested in women becoming like men, but
> finding their true role as women.>>
>
> I agree. I believe in equal pay for equal work, etc., but the emphasis
> I have seen lately is to dismiss all biological, physiological, physical
> and yes, even cultural differences between the genders. What is
> the Unificationist view on domestic violence and child abuse/neglect?
Domestic violence and child abuse and neglect are the consequences
of the spiritual disease affecting this world. All problems stem
from the misuse of love. That was the original sin, and that is
the fruit of sin that we see in the world. The many other problems
can be seen as resulting from the breakdown of faith and the family
in the world. We will not solve the social problems by mere social
engineering. We must attack the heart of the problem, which is sin,
and the human heart. When we change the individual, then we can
change the family. When we change the family, we will change the
society and the world. All the ills that were caused by a diseased
family will be healed by the advent of true families practising
the true altruistic self-giving love of God.
> < are married and live in their own homes. The ones who used to be
> called "core members" were those who lived in communal missionary
> houses and worked full time for the church. Such people still exist,
> but they are definitely in the minority.>>
>
> Okay, so I do not have to worry about giving up my career. What does
> a member do if one is not geographically close to a HSA-UWC church?
He starts his own congregation! :-) Teach the word, sign other
people up to the same ideals and live, love, serve and worship
together. Rev. Moon did not intend originally to start a church.
He intended to change the world. So, the institution of the church
is only required as long as it is useful, and needed. If everyone
practised the ideals that we teach, we could all go fishing and
forget about preaching and saving the world. :-)
> Does one go to another church service on Sunday or do you have your
> own service at home? What is the range of practice on this?
Rev. Moon's first church was a hut made out of discarded US Army
ration boxes after the Korean war. The building is not important.
Meet and pray where you will. We are in the process of sending
missionaries out to each of the 184 countries in the United Nations.
They will no doubt have to improvise. The details of the church
are unimportant. The content of what you teach and live by ARE
important.
> Also, I have noticed that the UC, like the Baha'i Faith, is growing
> more rapidly in the Third World (I would suspect that it is related
> to current American social and cultural dynamics involving the
> centrality and importance of religion.) What is an approximation
> of the current active UC membership in the U.S.? the world? What
> strategies are beginning to be employed to increase this membership?
Sorry, I really don't know, and remembering my earlier quote of
Mark Twain, I would say that numbers are deceiving. My GUESS is
that there are a few thousand active families in the church in the
USA. In Washington, we have about 300 families, with about 4 kids
on average. Worldwide, the numbers are a lot better. Kathy Rigney,
our missionary in Nigeria brought in 20,000 new couples to receive
the Blessing in Nigeria alone, just last year, 1995. Taiwan had
10,000, there were 360,000 couples blessed last year in all. My
guess is that worldwide there may be twice that in total, so maybe
a little less than a million families, or about 5 million members.
We are growing rapidly worldwide, and any attempt at numbers would
be a guestimate. And yes, we are certainly having more success in
the Third World. My honest answer to that is that the people are
less corrupted there by the hedonism and decadence of the developed
world.
> ITPN,
>
> Ali
Thanks, Ali, your questions are drawing the information out of
me, since you focus what I have to say on what you want to know
about.
Sincerely,
To the glory and honor of God and True Parents,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing.
See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists:
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 01:17:39 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: UNIFICATION-TEXTS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Unification Church and the Baha'i Faith
This is my correspondent Ali's response to me:
In a message dated 96-08-11 08:32:58 EDT, you write:
<< do not know much about what Baha'is think of the Unification
faith, except that most have not had the benefit of studying it
with UC members. They are likely to know only what they have learned
from the media.>>
In the Baha'i Writings, we are taught to investigate and examine
the claims of other religions, to delve into their teachings with an open
and unbiased mind. Really it should foster examination of all of the
issues to make sure that you are following the truth to the best of your
abilities. In fact, Baha'is CANNOT make their children become Baha'i.
It must be the informed, conscious choice of the child. Baha'is CAN, of
course, teach their children morals and ethics and are supposed to
teach their children about the Baha'i Faith AS WELL AS the teachings
and history of other religions.
I have yet to see many Baha'is live up to this standard.
<< Okay, we do the same. We quote from Divine Principle, the Bible
and Rev. Moon's words, among others in our teachings. In fact, in
teaching to the Islamic world, teachers of the Divine Principle
may refer to the Qu'ran. One characteristic of truth is that it is
eternal, and no matter how much it is attacked and dissected, it
will remain true. So, analysis and scrutiny are not viewed as bad
in the Unification faith. After all, we spend a large amount of
our resources funding interfaith conferences, and conflict resolution
between various groups. So, Rev. Moon does not fear the ideas of
others and encourages us to study other faiths, and to elevate them
with the teaching of Divine Principle. I am sure that there is much
of mutual benefit to be derived from interfaith dialogue.>>
Please elucidate on how one can elevate the study of other
faiths with the teaching of Divine Principle. I would benefit from
this practice.
<< We do not speak about atonement, but restoration. However, the
theologians among us may know of a disctinction. My understanding
is that Jesus atoned for the sin of humanity, but that it was
insufficient to create the Kingdom of God because he did not
establish a true family and establish the ideal of True Parents,
which we consider to be his primary mission.>>
After reading the Exposition of the Divine Principle, I agree with this
conclusion. To tell you the truth - my initial dismay at Christianity
was based on several things: 1) the doctrine of the blood atonement
of Jesus for original sin - it did not seem sufficient - in fact my
perception was that sacraments such as the Mass were taken to
extremes that almost smacked of ritual cannibalism, 2) the
"paganizing" of Christianity (I'm sure you know what I refer to),
3) the doctrine of a benevolent God who would condemn his
children to an eternal Hell (I always pictured Hell more as a hospital
or reformatory), and 4) the traditional concept of the Trinity.
These were my problems with "mainstream
Christian" thought.
What I have found is that it is comparatively easy to
justify number manipulation from scriptural texts, etc.. especially
pothumously. Therefore, I now take the approach of "judging them by
their fruits".
<>
Okay, so this explains why the Blessing is the primary "sacrament"
of the UC so to speak, since the Kingdom of Heaven is based upon
"eternal marriage and eternal family relationships." Please define
exactly what the family ideal is. This has really clarified for me why
I haven't seen a Christian without original sin. Question - what about
Blessed children - could they reaffirm the Original Sin in themselves?
Could they then choose to form a four position foundation with
Satan?
<< This service is intended for us to keep in mind the promises we
have made to God on a weekly basis. In fact, I do pledge service
daily, though not always at the 5 am time, though I have done it on
time for days or weeks at an end on time when my schedule permitted.
My family prays together every night before going to bed, and every
morning when we get up. Our kids are so united with this routine
that they will ask for us to pray togther so that they can go to
school. They don't like to miss it.>>
Is it okay for a couple who is not Blessed to recite the Family Pledge?
Could I try it out without defiling it in some way?
<< The Unification faith teaches that all religions will be unified at
the time of the return of Christ by the revealing of a new expression
of the Truth which will elevate all religions and remove their
reasons for disunuity. We teach that the character of revelation
is progressive, and that people continue to grow in love and wisdom
for eternity. God also grows in love and wisdom. God has been
searching for an object of His love who would reciprocate it to
Him. That is why He created us.>>
My question: what would you say the purpose of all of these
different religions was? What was the role of Islam? the Baha'i
Faith?
<< It is more up to each one to discover the value of Rev. Sun Myung
Moon as the "Lord of the Second Advent". As Jesus said to John,
"Go back and tell John what you see and hear, the blind see again,
and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, and the
dead are raised to life and the Good News is proclaimed to the
poor; and happy is the man who does not lose faith in me."
(Matt 11:4-5)>>
Good, you mean that "by their fruits ye shall know them"? So tell
me what you "see and hear".
<>
Kudos. Earlier you have seen my opinion of relying of numbers and
dates. It is excellent to see someone who is focusing upon the actions
and words and thoughtful, sincere prayer. Refreshing! I will pray about
it!
<< Unificationists are not interested in women becoming like men, but
finding their true role as women.>>
I agree. I believe in equal pay for equal work, etc., but the emphasis
I have seen lately is to dismiss all biological, physiological, physical
and yes, even cultural differences between the genders. What is
the Unificationist view on domestic violence and child abuse/neglect?
<>
Okay, so I do not have to worry about giving up my career. What does
a member do if one is not geographically close to a HSA-UWC church?
Does one go to another church service on Sunday or do you have your
own service at home? What is the range of practice on this? Also, I
have noticed that the UC, like the Baha'i Faith, is growing more rapidly
in the Third World (I would suspect that it is related to current American
social and cultural dynamics involving the centrality and importance of
religion.) What is an approximation of the current active UC membership
in the U.S.? the world? What strategies are beginning to be employed to
increase this membership?
ITPN,
Ali