Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 31
Jun 28, 1996
From: Tim Elder
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
Subject: My own views of the Unification Church and Rev. Moon
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:52:04 +0900
Message-ID: <31D38114.7B10@unitel.co.kr>
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Anton Hein wrote:
>Alright, so you take exception to the fact that someone says your
>church practices so-called "heavenly deception." Fine. Let's cut to
>the chase:
>
>When they evangelize, do Unification Church members always identify
>themselves as members of the Unification Church?
I'd like to point out that you that you are not being entirely honest
here. I took exception to the fact that jarrod@breeze.seas.ucla.edu
(Jarrod J. Williamson) alleged that the Unification Church teaches
deception as some sort of formal doctrine.
Williamson wrote:
> Some cults like Moonies and Hare Krishna's call
> their deception "heavenly deception" or "transcendental trickery".
I know that whatever I say will not be considered to credible by
Williamson, because he is working on the (false) premise that the
Unification Church teaches deceit. It is for this reason that I
challenged him as follows:
>if [Williamson] is a fair and liberal minded person, then he will welcome
>our suggestion that he re-examine his statement as it pertains to the
>Unification Church.
But now, you have rephrased the question so that it is to your
advantage. You are now challenging me to say whether all the millions
of Unification Church members worldwide "always" conduct themselves
according to a certain standard. For me to answer that question, I
would have to survey all the members around the world. And if I answer
in the affirmative, you would then need find just one member who on one
occasion failed to meet the standard and you would be able to
contradict me.
I can say that I always identified myself as a member of the
Unification Church whenever I evangelize. I can also say that every
member with whom I have contact does the same. The person who
evangelized me in New York in 1974 certainly made it clear from the
start that she was with Rev. Moon.
>
>Do Unification Church members always honestly present - from the start
>- their beliefs on who Sun Myung Moon is?
Again, I and every member with whom I have contact has presented
his/her opinion on this matter honestly. Of course, I'm sure you're
aware that different individuals in the Unification Church can have
different opinions regarding Rev. Moon.
In a recent post to alt.religion.unification, I summarized my own views
as follows:
(Please note that I am placing '>' signs only next to what Dennis Smith
wrote. This is because my news server will not allow me to use so much
'included text.' The original article was posted on June 7, 1996.)
Dennis Smith wrote:
> This is an excellent suggestion Tim. Can you tell us if you believe Sun Myung
> Moon is the Messiah? If you do believe Sun Myung Moon is the Messiah can you
> explain to us what has convinced you of this.
>
Thanks,
I'd be glad to. I will explain my views in very brief summary.
Do I believe that Rev. Moon is the Messiah? Yes, I do. But it's not
Rev. alone. I believe that Rev. AND Mrs. Moon stand together in the
messianic role. On a different level, I -- and every other person in
the world - must fulfill a certain messianic role -- though on a much
smaller scale than that of Rev. and Mrs. Moon.
I believe that when Rev. Moon was 16 years old, Jesus appeared to him
in a vision one day as he prayed on a mountainside not far from him
home in what is today North Korea. I believe that Jesus asked Rev. Moon
to complete the work that he was forced to leave uncompleted 2,000
years ago, when people refused to heed his call for repentance and
chose, instead, to crucify him. That work, I believe, consists of
building the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and in heaven in accordance
with God's original plan of creation.
What convinced me that Rev. Moon is the Messiah? It was a process that
included both rational thought and prayer. I first came into contact
with Rev. Moon's teachings in October 1974, in New York. My parents
were (actually, my father still is) United Methodist missionaries in
Japan, and I was baptized into the United Methodist Church when I was
11 years old. By the time I graduated from college, however, I had
become disillusioned in the ability of the Methodist Church -- or any
other church, for that matter -- to carry out a ministry that would
make a real difference in peoples' lives around the world.
Rev. Moon has spelled out a vision for the kingdom of heaven on earth
and in heaven, and is devoting his life to the accomplishment of that
vision. That convinces me that he -- together with Mrs. Moon -- is the
Messiah.
I have had a number of occasions to meet with Rev. Moon. On the
personal level, he impresses me as a man of love. He preaches true
love, and from every indication that I have, he practices what he
preaches.
I am more apt to think of Rev. and Mrs. Moon more in the context of
"True Parents." This means I believe that they are fulfilling the
parental role in relation to the rest of humanity that Adam and Eve
would have been able to fulfill, had they not committed sin but had
grown to fulfill God's purpose of creation.
I suspect that you may disagree with some/much/perhaps even all of what
I've said. I'd be interested to hear your views.
Tim Elder
(end of June 7 post)
Once again, Anton Hein wrote:
>Does Sun Myung Moon's "Divine Principle" contradict the Bible?
The world Christian community does not, unfortunately, agree on a
single unified interpretation of the Bible. If there were such a
unified interpretation, I think it's safe to assume that there wouldn't
be nearly as many denominations in the world as there are today.
For example, many Christians believe that Mary gave birth to Jesus as a
'virgin,' i.e. without having sexual intercourse with a man. Other
Christians have interpreted the world 'virgin' to mean 'young woman',
thus leaving open the question of how Mary came to be pregnant.
So, when you ask me to tell you whether the Divine Principle
contradicts the Bible, I'm not sure whose intrepretation of the Bible
you want me to use as my reference point. If it is yours that I should
use, then you will have to explain your interpretation to me.
There are a few comments I'd like to make without waiting for your
answer on that.
As a member of the Unification Church, I don't believe that the
revelation of God's truth to humankind stopped with the completion of
the New Testament.
In reference to how Mary came to be pregnant with Jesus, Rev. Moon
teaches very definitely that Mary became pregnant through sexual
intercourse with a man. That is, Jesus had a biological father. In a
speech to an audience of mostly non-Unification Churh members in
Washington last April 16, Rev. said: "Jesus was conceived in the house
of Zechariah." Where does it say this in the Bible? I don't think it
does. Then where does Rev. Moon get this? I believe he received this
information as a revelation from God.
The speech I refer to is available through Damian Andersen's homepage.
The direct link to the speech itself is
http://www.unification.net/1996/960416.html
I believe that God didn't stop revealing His truth to humankind as soon
as the final period was fixed to the final sentence of the final book
included in the New Testament. I also believe that God is consistent.
He is one. And even though the expressions of God's truth can take many
forms, His truth itself is one. Even though people may disagree on how
to comprehend or intrepret the expressions of His truth -- such as the
Bible -- His truth itself is one.
For me to grow in my understanding of God's truth, I have to constantly
listen to the opinions of those who disagree with me and use these
opinions to challenge my own assumptions. I look forward to this
conversation with you, because I'm sure it will help me in my own
ongoing quest to better understand God's truth.
Tim Elder
Jun 30, 1996
From: Tim Elder
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Re: Apostolic Succesion and Unificationists
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:59:32 +0900
Message-ID: <31D609B4.5D98@unitel.co.kr>
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<31D38114.7B10@unitel.co.kr>
To Perry Robinson:
Thank you for responding to my post. I would like to clarify one point,
becuase I think as it is we are each talking about completely different
things.
I believe Jesus entrusted the Church to the Apostles and their
successors with the idea that they would be responsible for guiding the
Church until his return. Apostolic Succession, therefore, is a concept
that is relevant only during the period that begins with Jesus'
ascension into heaven following his crucifixion and ends with his
return.
I believe that Jesus has returned. I believe that the Christian Church
today exists in a new historical period -- a period that begins with
Jesus' return and ends with the erradication of evil and the
accomplishment of God's original Will to create a world based on true
love.
When I say that Jesus has returned, I am of course claiming that Jesus
has returned in the person of Rev. Sun Myung Moon. I believe that when
Rev. Moon was a teenager, Jesus appeared to him and asked him to take
on the messianic mission and be responsible for completing the work of
God's restoration providence. I believe that Rev. and Mrs. Moon today,
as the True Parents of humankind, are doing the work that Jesus would
have done 2,000 years ago had he not been killed. I believe that Jesus
and the Holy Spirit are working with Rev. Moon today in this regard.
In your post, you argue against me based on the assumption that the
Church is still waiting for the return of Jesus. But, as you can see,
my discussion is based on an entirely different set of assumptions.
Tim Elder
July 1, 1996
Subject: Re: Apostolic Succesion and Unificationists
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
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On Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:27:29 -0700 Perry Robinson (st_aidan@deltanet.com)
wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, Tim Elder wrote:
> Hebrews and I Cor make it VERY clear that Jesus will reign untill he has
> put all enemies under his feet. Jesus is still reigning now and has not
> returned at all. What you teach is contrary to the Teaching of the
> Church. Your is merely the opinion of a sect. Where do you get your
> authority to interpret the Bible in the first place?
That is certainly an interesting question. I would say that Tim
has every bit as much authority to interpret scripture as any other
Christian, including you. Where do YOU get your authority?
The reign of God on Earth has not yet come, but it will. His enemies
are being vanquished as we speak.
> > When I say that Jesus has returned, I am of course claiming that Jesus
> > has returned in the person of Rev. Sun Myung Moon. I believe that when
> > Rev. Moon was a teenager, Jesus appeared to him and asked him to take
> > on the messianic mission and be responsible for completing the work of
> > God's restoration providence. I believe that Rev. and Mrs. Moon today,
> > as the True Parents of humankind, are doing the work that Jesus would
> > have done 2,000 years ago had he not been killed. I believe that Jesus
> > and the Holy Spirit are working with Rev. Moon today in this regard.
> Circular argument. One what basis do you intrept Scripture authoritatively?
> and 2, How do you know Mr Moon is JEsus?
Is it no more or less of a circular argument than a believer
declaring the scriptures to be authoritative and then using those
very same scriptures to make their point. One must start with a
beginning point of faith. Without that, one can listen to and
understand the views of another, bearing in mind the assumptions
that he makes. So, the orthodox (little o) Christian position starts
from the divinity of Christ and the authority of Scripture. The
Unificationist position does not depend on Rev. Moon receiving his
revelation and mission from Jesus, but it does help to bear that
in mind in order to understand the worldview of Unificationists.
If you are not interested in understanding our worldview, but merely
in deconstructing it, then do as you please.
> > In your post, you argue against me based on the assumption that the
> > Church is still waiting for the return of Jesus. But, as you can see,
> > my discussion is based on an entirely different set of assumptions.
> >
> > Tim Elder
> No, my argument is that you intrept the Bible based on your views or
> those given to you by someone like yourself who has not authority to
> interpret the Bible in the first place. I do not quesiton your theology,
> I question the assumed authority undergirding your theology. Who gave you
> the authority to interpret God's word? Mr Moon? How do you know he has
> the authority? Cause he says so?
The Protestant Reformation, like it or not, proclaimed the priesthood
of all believers. The Bible was printed in the local languages of
the Western European peoples, and many people learned to read just
so that they could view the scriptures for themselves and make up
their own minds about what the scriture said without having to
depend on an authoritative priestly class to tell them what to
think or believe. So, I believe that in the absence of righteous
Christian leaders, God allowed for the scriptures to become accessible
to all believers so that all who sought God in spirit and in truth,
with prayer and study, could have the word of God opened to them
and God could speak to them through their prayer and study.
> PS- The Church is the Pillar and Ground of all Truth, NOT Mr MOON.
God is the ground of all truth and all being, not any church. Jesus
said "I am the way, the truth and the life" and Rev. Moon is
following in the path of Jesus, and is even greater than Jesus.
So, a man who lives as Jesus lives embodies truth, and is truth,
not any church or flawed believers, even the Unification Church.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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July 5, 1996
Subject: The Sinless Messiah and his Children
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,alt.support.ex-cult
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,alt.support.ex-cult
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On Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:57:45 GMT ingo@user1.channel1.com wrote:
> Well, Damian and all you other "apologists" (leaders) ...how do you
> explain away the "fallen nature" of the "perfect, sinless son" of the
> Messiah, who, according to the DP has no fallen nature???
[snip]
> Bottom line:
> IF THE SINLESS SON OF THE MESSIAH COMMITS SINS HE IS NOT SINLESS AND
> WITHOUT FALLEN NATURE AT ALL ... AND THE DP IS AN INCREDIBLE LIE
> DESIGNED TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE AND MAKE THEM UNQUESTIONINGLY SERVE A
> GREEDY, POWERHUNGRY MAGLOMANIAC WHO CALLS HIMSELF MESSIAH WHO AND
> LOVES TO EXPLOIT AND CONTROL PEOPLE!
The standard that Rev. Moon has followed throughout his life is to
love God and the world more than his own family. This has not been
without a price to pay in his own family. Adam was born without
sin and yet he sinned. So, growing up to maturity and perfection
of love without sin is the responsibility of each individual. There
are no guarantees. Jesus was born without sin, and he did not sin.
Rev. Moon's life has had many tragedies in it, and my response to
any trouble in his family is to pray for a harmonious resolution
to that trouble.
Your attitude of gloating does not indicate a heart of Christian
love and forgiveness. St. Paul said:
"Love takes no pleasure in other people's sins but
delights in the truth." (1 Cor 13:6)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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July 6, 1996
Subject: Re: Apostolic Succesion and Unificationists
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <31D8FA65.4AE8@unitel.co.kr> <603.6758T1278T1098@mercury.interpath.com>
On 03 Jul 96 21:18:21 -500 Kevin W. Davidson (kwdavids@mercury.interpath.com)
wrote:
> Tim Elder previously wrote an article appearing in talk.religion.misc:
> >To: Perry Robinson
> >Rev. Moon has asked that we respect the Catholic Church as the oldest of the
> >three brothers: Catholic, Protestant and Unification. ...
> Heh. That's sort of like saying the three great bodies in the Solar
> System are The Sun, Jupiter, and The Comet Kohoutek. There are more than
> 170 million Orthodox, for example, and maybe 3 million Unificationists?
That is rapidly changing. There is a Blessing ceremony scheduled
for November 1997 in Washington DC in which 3.6 million couples
are expected to participate worldwide. You may think of it as a
worldwide distributed wedding. In this ceremony, Rev. and Mrs. Moon
will give God's blessing on couples getting married for the first
time, or rededicating their marriages if they are already married.
It is my understanding that in Africa alone, there are that many
waiting to participate and the number could be far higher 16 months
from now. The number could be as high as 10 million couples
participating.
Even the greatest oaks started as little acorns. The Kingdom of
Heaven is like the mustard seed. Though it is the smallest of seeds,
it grows into a great tree where the birds of the air can make
their nests.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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July 7, 1996
On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, PMT wrote:
> God is all forgiving, perhaps this is a contradiction?
>
> If God is all forgiving, and someone goes to hell, then surely they
> must be allowed a chance to make up, by reincarnation.
>
> If Jesus Christ came back to life, and is to arise again, what is
> this, reincarnation?
>
> The Spirit moves in mysterious ways, I am a Shaman and married to
> my Christian wife, I was chosen to walk through Earths burning
> fire, and give mercy to those that would harm me, to forgive those
> as I would also be forgiven, the time has come when those working
> in spirit must rise, be you Christian, Shaman, Catholic,
> Protestant or any Fiath of `Gentle persuasion`.
>
> Your reply will probably be text book style, but as it says, the
> spirit moves in mysterious ways, we need no text book to justify
> our existence, in spirit that is Holy and the Creator of all, you
> shall find the way, all `material` props and books are of other
> mens ideas, seek and ye shall find.
>
> And before you get flamed and decide you are going to point out to
> me any scripts to support your cause, and `put` me right, I have
> heard all the quotes of the good book / s from the different
> denominations, but to dam another faith is most probably
> blasthemous, I have watched people like you two mull over who is
> right and wrong, each Faith has its right to God, full stop.
>
> So, shall we abandon childish ways, take a step forward or shall
> we lower ourselves to a slagging match as to who is right?
>
> There is an Earth Ceremony in three weeks involving different
> Faiths of gentle persuasion, join us or be the few faiths left
> behind.
>
> Good Fortune.
Excuse me. You are replying to someone else. I did not write what
you are attributing to me. I posted the original article only. I
agree with you that God is all-forgiving and that the day is coming
soon when people of good will of all faiths will work together for
the common good.
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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July 7, 1996
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Adultery
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,alt.christnet.theology,alt.politics.homosexuality
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On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 11:20:22 GMT Apuleius (eeaaee@mixcom.com) wrote:
> "Damian J. Anderson" wrote to and
> alt.politics.homosexuality:
> == him. Romans 1.26-27: The 'due penalty' probably refers to venereal
> == disease. In addition, there is the spiritual damage
> == to the personality of one who engages in such behavior.
> Why don't you moonies learn how to read?
"You moonies" ! :-) How quaint. What a bigot.
> Romans is quite clear: the "due penalty" is homosexual behavior, and
> the "sin" is idolatry.
Since when is homosexual behavior a penalty for anything? It is
sinful. Disease I can see as a penalty for sin. But how can sin be
a penalty for sin? You don't make sense. And as for idolatry being
sin, well that is just one of many.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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July 8, 1996
To: telder@unitel.co.kr (Tim Elder)
Subject: Re: George Bush at WFWP
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology,talk.politics.misc
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In article <31E08E1B.3792@unitel.co.kr> Tim Elder (telder@unitel.co.kr) wrote:
> I see on the AP wire where former President Bush attended another
> meeting of the Womens Federation for World Peace. Reports here are still
> sketchy. Perhaps someone who also attended can provide some details.
I was there. Not only was George Bush there, but also Maureen
Reagan, Miss America 1996, Shirley Jones of Broadway, movies and
TV fame, the mother of Mayor Barry of DC, and a variety of other
distinguished women.
Former President Bush spoke at the International Women's Friendship
Conference at the Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington DC yesterday
(July 7, 1996), addressing family issues and also spoke of his time
as US President, the decisions he had to make, and his faith in
God. He said that there were many times that he, like Pres. Lincoln
before him was "driven to his knees [in prayer] by the weight of
the job." He said that the hardest decision he ever had to make as
President was to order young men and women in the armed forces into
harm's way in battle in the Gulf War. He also said that every night,
he would pray with his wife for America and for God's guidance so
that he could do his job faithfully
In particular, he spoke of the work of the WFWP as a shining example
of volunteerism and as a shining point of light. He also singled
out the Washington Times for praise. In case anyone would think
otherwise, he is well aware of Rev. and Mrs. Moon's involvement in
WFWP. He toured Japan last year with Mrs. Moon, speaking in 6 cities
with her.
In addition to conducting friendship conferences between American
and Japanese women, the WFWP has had conferences to bring women
together from England and Ireland, the French and English speaking
communities in Quebec, women from Austria and the Czech Republic,
black and white women in America, and so on. It is a model of
reconciliation and healing. The WFWP promotes the principle that
if sisterhood can be made between women, then they can prevent
their husbands and sons from fighting in wars, and can encourage
them to reconcile their differences. So, it values and honors
women's unique ability to nurture and foster healing in situations
of conflict.
The previous WFWP conference featured the woman who received the
Nobel Peace Prize for her peacemaking efforts in Northern Ireland.
I forget her name for the moment. This is yet another visionary
example of Rev. Sun Myung Moon's work to bring peace in the world
and reconciliation between estranged people.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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July 9, 1996
On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 GZJ wrote:
> Dear Damian,
>
> Thanks for your updates on important church related news as well as for your
> continued generation of spiritual food over the net. I feel that it has such
> a positive cleansing effect, a healthy growth in the midst of so many
> diseases. It is so good to sign on to my online service and be greeted by
> material from "Blessing and Ideal Family", World Scripture, and the Divine
> Principle. With this kind of continuous outpouring of God's Word it cannot
> but create a better spiritual atmosphere all around.
>
> So keep up the good work!
>
> ITPN, GZJ
Thank you. That is the general idea. The Divine Principle teaches us that
resurrection takes place on the basis of God's Word, so I see it as the
crucial element in spiritual growth, along with prayer, and service in
accordance with the Word.
Sincerely,
In True Parents' Names,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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July 11, 1996
Subject: Re: George Bush at WFWP
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology,talk.politics.misc
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 06:18:43 GMT Jim Kennemur (voltai29@worldnet.att.net)
wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 20:06:42 -0400, Frank Arthur
> wrote:
> >Jim Kennemur wrote:
> >> Abraham Lincoln was an atheist.
> I'll start you off with a quote from
> Mr. Lincoln and a quote from his wife. You have to do the rest on your
> own.
> "My earlier views at the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of
> salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer
> and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I
> shall ever change them."
> (Abraham Lincoln) -- LETTER TO JUDGE J. WAKEFIELD.
This indicates that Mr. Lincoln doubted Christian theology,
not that he was an atheist.
> "My husband is not a Christian but is a religious man, I think."
> (Lincoln's wife, Mary Todd Lincoln) -- TOWARD THE MYSTERY.
This statement indicates again that Lincoln did not hold to Christian
doctrine but was a religious man, not an atheist. I too do not
subscribe to certain traditional Christan views, but that certainly
does not make me an atheist.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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July 12, 1996
Subject: Same-Sex Marriage
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel,alt.religion.christian.last-days,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.christnet.theology
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On Fri, 12 Jul 96 15:15:54 GMT Adam Gravels (agravels@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us)
wrote:
> Here is the address of everyone in Congress! Send them e-mail that you are
> against the law that lets states prevent same-sex marriages.
> president@whitehouse.gov;
> etc.
[SNIP]
God created man in the image of Himself,
in the image of God he created him,
male and female he created them.
God blessed them, saying to them, "Be fruitful, fill the
earth and conquer it."
Gen 1:27-28
Same sex marriage, and deliberately childless marriages are contrary
to the will and plan of God. This world will continue to decline
until the family honors God and His desires.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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July 12, 1996
Here is a short piece of news about the state of religious freedom
in Russia. The following message was sent out by the Christian
Information Network of the Keston Institute (GB)
:
________________________________________________________________
RUSSIAN FEDERAL DUMA GIVES PRELIMINARY APPROVAL TO LAW SHRINKING
RIGHTS OF RELIGIOUS MINORITIES
by Lawrence A. Uzzell, Keston News Service
The Duma took another small but significant step on 10 July toward
whittling away the rights of freedom of conscience recognised by
Russia's landmark 1990 law on freedom of conscience. By a lopsided
vote of 346 in favour to just three opposed, the deputies gave
preliminary approval to a compromise bill which would shrink the
rights of religious minorities but would fall short of the even
more restrictive changes sought by the Orthodox Patriarchate of
Moscow.
Under the Russian parliament's rules, this preliminary approval or
'first reading' merely puts the Duma on record as supporting the
general concept of a proposed piece of legislation. The key
decisions still lie ahead, when the Duma takes up the bill for its
'second reading' in which deputies are allowed to offer and vote
on amendments.
In its current form, the compromise bill is supported by all the
members of the Duma's committee on religion, from human-rights
advocate VALERI BORSHCHOV to the committee's Communist chairman
VIKTOR ZORKALTSEV. Key Protestant, Roman Catholic and other
religious leaders are also backing it in the hope that it will
forestall demands for more restrictive laws of the kind favoured
by the Moscow Patriarchate-- for example, banning all independent
religious activity by foreign residents or visitors. But human-rights
activists such as former deputy FR GLEB YAKUNIN have warned that
during the 'second reading' stage the bill could be made much
harsher through the addition of new amendments.
One such amendment was already added on 16 May, when the Duma's
committee on religion formally approved the bill drafted by a
broad-based task force which included key officials of the executive
branch as well as representatives of both the Moscow Patriarchate
and minority religious groups. This amendment removed from the
earlier draft a provision which specified that a religious organisation
as a whole could not be held responsible for criminal behaviour by
its individual members.
The task force's bill which has now passed the Duma's 'first reading'
would also outlaw religious groups which engage in various undefined
activities such as 'violating public morality' or promoting 'the
stirring up of religious dissension' or 'a decline in psychological
health' (see 'Church and State Leaders Split on New Law Regulating
Religion', Keston News Service, May 1996). Last year human-rights
defenders felt confident that PRESIDENT YELTSIN would veto any
version of the bill which went significantly further in restricting
freedom of conscience, but powerful new appointee ALEKSANDR LEBED's
recent attacks on foreign religious groups as threats to Russia's
national security have now undermined that confidence.
VLADIMIR KULCHITSKY, chief of staff of the religion committee, told
Keston News Service on 11 July that the crucial 'second reading'
will take place only in the autumn, and probably not until October
or even November. What this means, he said, is that deputies will
have plenty of time to formulate and discuss amendments such as
those being pursued by the Moscow Patriarchate.
The Patriarchate has made its continuing interest unmistakably
clear. Under the Duma's rules its sessions can be addressed by
non-deputies, and one of the guests who took the floor on 10 July
was the influential METROPOLITAN KIRILL OF SMOLENSK, head of the
Patriarchate's Department of External Church Relations. He said
that the bill would be a step in the right direction but did not
go far enough.
---
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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July 12, 1996
From damian@unification.net Fri Jul 12 21:24:24 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:23:49 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Reply-To: damian@cais.cais.com
To: Unification Texts ,
Unification Evangelism List
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology
Subject: A world to the wise - A prediction
You know how Rev. Sun Myung Moon has predicted that the Blessing
of 3.6 million couples will be held based in Washington DC in
November 1997 and broadcast by satellite for the worldwide
participants? Well, I predict that some time in September 1996,
Rev. Moon is going to announce that in 40 days, the Blessing will
be held in November 1996, yes 1996. We need 50 thousand people to
fill the stadium in Washington, and that is no big deal. Back in
1976, we brought 300,000 poeple to the Washington Monument Rally
with 40 days to prepare. You don't believe me? Let's wait and see.
And, I don't have any inside information. I have just been praying
about this and this is my hunch. I leave you with these words:
If Father gives them enough time to work and prepare to invite such
people to Washington, then they will just take it easy. However,
if Father gives a deadline of three days to accomplish then everyone
becomes more desperate to achieve the goal. It is a matter of your
heart, attitude and determination. The time is not the key factor.
How about changing the date for the 3.6 million couples Blessing
Ceremony from November 1997 to November 1996? Would you not become
more serious about this event if that were the case? If Father
gives the goal of November 1996, would you become more serious
about this event, or would you be knocked down and give up? Even
at the cost of our lives, and even after we die we still have to
accomplish this. No one is going to help you. It isn't a case of
firing the canon ball. The canon ball has already been fired and
is on its way. Now it is a matter of hitting the target.
Rev. Sun Myung Moon, January 2, 1996
http://www.unification.net/1996/960102.html
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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July 14, 1996
On Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:38:28 -0700 Perry Robinson (st_aidan@deltanet.com)
wrote:
> Jesus left his work to the Aposltes who ordained successors for one, so
> we don't NEED Rev Moon.
If they had done their job, we would not need Rev. Moon. Is the world the
Kingdom of God? Does it fulfill God's ideals? If not, then we need Rev.
Moon.
> Secondly, Jesus and his apostles handed on the authoritative
> interpretation of scripture, which is found in the Early Fathers of the
> Church and in her Bishops.
Those same chosen succesors also had illegitimate children, fought wars in
the name of God, sold indulgences, sold the priesthood. If the church had
been a pure vehicle for God, He would have continued to use it. Since the
Christians failed to recognize the Christ when he came, so Rev. Moon has
had to build his own foundation.
> Thirdly, ALL Christians agree the articles of the Nicean and Apsotles
> Creed. If they don't they are not Xians.
That is YOUR definition of a Christian. Thank God your voice is not the
voice of God. Jesus said that those who obey him and love one another will
be known as his disciples. He never insisted on people following a creed
to be the true believers.
> Fourthly, the Christian Church has been here before any of the Sects that
> claim to interpret the bible or have secret visions. We don't need them
> since we have the Church and it is a FACT that the Church has always been
> here. These sects have not.
You say you don't need them and to continue in the way you have been
going, you don't. But to build God's Kingdom on Earth, God needs us.
> Fifthly, when god gives new messages he commisions someone by
> extraordinary mission, that is, he gives miracles. Rev Moon has done no
> such miracles, just like Joseph Smith and countless other "prophets".
Changing the heart of people towards God is the greatest and most
important miracle. Rev. Moon has done that for millions of people.
> Sixthly, the Bible clearly says that the CHurch is the pillar and ground
> of the the Truth, not any individual.
Jesus was the incarnation of Truth, not the church.
> Seventhly, the Church put the Bible together and judges what is rgiht as
> it has been lead by the Spirit in Council. When someone like Mr Moon
> contradicts the Councils, he is outside of the Faith and the CHurch. This
> is clearly seen in acts 15-16, not to mention the 7 Ecumenical Councils
> of 325-787 AD. The Bible belongs to the Church, not to anyone person.
> Hence Mr Moon is a false prophet.
Hmm. I have to chuckle. Have you ever heard of the blind leading the
blind? :-)
> Read the history books, its all there
> See St Ireneaus, Against HEresies, Book 1, chapt 3.
Yeah, yeah. Those who have ears to hear, let them hear. Those who don't
can study the book in the hopes of finding eternal life.
Get busy solving the real heartbreaking problems of our society, such as
the decline of faith and family, the rise of crime and despair,
promiscuity, homosexuality, divorce, adultery, abandoned children, spousal
abuse, abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, lack of concern for human life,
extreme individualism, the corruption of the churches, poverty, disease,
war, hunger, and so on. Take the beam out of your own eye, and then you
will be able to see better to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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July 14, 1996
Re: Apostolic Succession and Unificationists
alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
On Sun, 14 Jul 1996 RJM wrote:
> Damian:
>
> As always liked your answer, but in a couple of spots there thought you got a
> bit too confrontational. Reminds me of my state leader days when I got into
> it sometimes with close-minded Christians. Nowadays, I prefer to see our
> movement as a segue from the best of Christianity to the next higher level in
> the evolution of consciousness.
I agree. However, Father does speak strongly about the failures of
Christianity and America when he sees fit. If you coach a football team,
you tell them where to improve, rather than showering them with praise
over small accomplishments.
> Part of your answer may have mistakenly
> conveyed the view that God is no longer working through the Catholic Church
> or other Christian Churches. I believe that He is working wherever He can.
I agree again, that God CAN work through anyone when they open themselves
up to His spirit, but when they arrogantly proclaim that they do not need
God's representative, then they need to know that they are in the wrong.
> All the best, RJM
To you too,
ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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July 14, 1996
Subject: Re: Same-Sex Marriage
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel,alt.religion.christian.last-days,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.christnet.theology,alt.support.marriage
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On Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:24:10 -0700 Rebecca D. (cyberangel@telis.org) wrote:
> I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with one point. I don't feel that
> deliberately childless marriages are contrary to the will of God. Some
> people are just not able to handle children, whether it be physically or
> emotionally. So they choose NOT to have kids. If you are serving God,
> then that is not a requirement I see him forcing on anyone.
> cyberangel@telis.com
Yes, I agree that many people are so immature that they are unable
to be parents, but that is also contrary to God's will. Our
responsibility as human beings is grow to be like God. God is
loving, He is a Father and He is a creator. If we cannot do that,
how can we expect to live with God for eternity? We can only develop
the four great loves in the family. They are:
(1) CHILDREN'S LOVE for parents which extends to all elders.
(2) SIBLING LOVE which extends to friends and peers.
(3) CONJUGAL LOVE, the special love of husband and wife that creates life.
(4) PARENTAL LOVE for one's children, which extends to all people.
God created us out of love to experience love in all its fullness.
We cannot experience the fullness of love without marriage and
having children. Love is the source of life and the root of all
happiness. It is also the root of misery if it goes wrong. In fact,
the root of evil from the very beginning of humanity was the misuse
of love. In the very first human family, there was adultery and
murder. So, we are all descended from that same first dysfunctional
family which has filled the world with its problems. So, the root
of salvation must be in the family, not a single messiah but a
married messiah who becomes the role model for all people to create
God's ideal on the Earth. That is why the Bible speaks of the
Marriage of the Lamb.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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July 15, 1996
Unification Church and the Baha'i Faith
On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 DS wrote:
> In a message dated 96-06-23 20:35:10 EDT, you write:
> From what I have read from more objective sources that is unfortunate.
> I certainly haven't come across anything "sinister". In fact I was
> pleasantly surprised to find some parallels with my conception of the
> Baha'i Faith. Let me preface this with the statement that any opinions
> stated are my own and are not to be considered in any way
> authoritative. ;-)
This does not surprise me, from the openness I have perceived
from Baha'is, even though I do not know a whole lot about your faith.
> I wanted to start with my perceptions of some of the parallels between
> our belief systems. This starts us from commonalities rather than
> differences. These statements are from a UC text file (simpledp.txt)
> that I got from FTP.
Okay, where did you get the UC text file, as a matter of interest.
This is not on my FTP site.
> Unification thought:
>
> GOD: God, while traditionally looked at as a masculine figure, is more
> accurately described as BOTH masculine and feminine (Gen 1:27). It might be
> more accurate to think of God as our "parents", rather than simply "our
> Father". We see God as being personally involved in our day to day activity,
> not just the creator that set things in motion and stepped aloofly away from
> mankind, as a Deist would believe. We only fail to see God's activity in our
> life because of our spiritual immaturity; as we spiritually mature, God
> becomes much more apparent in our day to day life.
This is a fair assessment of the UC position on God, as far as it
goes. Although God has masculine and feminine aspects, God is still
Father though. One key aspect of the Unification view of God is
that God grieves over the suffering of humanity, because of His
parental love for us, His children. His motive in working for the
salvation and restoration of all people is rooted in this love.
> Baha'i thought:
>
> The Unification view comes close to the Baha'i view, IMHO. Joseph
> Sheppherd in "The Elements of the Baha'i Faith" (pp.56-57) states:
> "The use of these attributive terms within the writings of Baha'u'llah
> clearly demonstrates that God is beyond the notions of shape and
> form, above the concepts of race and gender. This existence is
> without location or condition, an unknowable essence which cannot
> be made anthropomorphic. God is not created in our image; we are
> created in the likeness of God. That ethereal part of us, our spiritual
> reality, is this Divine image."
There is of course an aspect of the unknowable about God as there
is in the unknowability of human beings, in a complete sense, as
we are also spiritual beings and never wholly predictable. God has
form only when incarnated in the body of human beings. The dwelling
place of God is in the human family, in particular, in the conjugal
love of husband and wife who are in oneness with God.
> From the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah (XXIX): "The
> purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable
> him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most
> excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the
> divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness."
In Unification thought, God's motive to create was that He wanted to
experience love with us, His children. So, all life originated in God's
love and was to be fulfilled in that love.
> Unification thought:
>
> FAMILY: The family is looked at as the "school of love" where we learn to
> love others. We distinguish "three different kinds of love" -
> parental love --> the love of parents towards their children;
> horizontal love --> the love of our peers, ultimately the love of husband and
> wife;
> children's love --> the love of children towards their parents.
>
> Through experiencing the give and take of love in the family, this is the
> preparation for the broader sphere of social relationships in the community,
> nation, and world.
The horizontal love of friends, siblings and peers is distinguished from
the horizontal love of husband and wife which is a special relationship
which is the origin of life and the fulfillment of the purpose of all
creation that man and woman should be united in spirit and in flesh, and
this is where God and humanity meet, in the conjugal relationship.
Indeed, the family is the preparation for all social relationships. And,
inasmuch as those relationships are missing or aberrant in the family,
this affects the society. This is why the breakdown of the family is
having such a devastating effect on the society, because so many boys are
growing up angry at their dads, and becoming angry and hostile with the
world. Girls who grow up without a father fall for the first male figure
who shows them any interest and get pregnant early and unmarried before
they have any hope of forming a stable and loving family. So the cycle of
poverty and family breakdown is perpetuated and made worse.
> Baha'i thought:
>
> I certainly have no disagreements with this. Certainly it is most difficult
> to bring the attribute of love into the community, nation and world if we
> cannot manifest it within the family. There is a strong emphasis in the
> Baha'i teachings on the necessity of honoring one's parents.
Yes, we emphasize filial piety in alignment with oriental and Biblical
tradition.
> For Baha'is, the knowledge of the Manifestations of God (i.e.
> prophets) creates the love of God in our hearts. The love of God is
> the source of everlasting happiness. Love is the cause of our creation.
> The sole object of life for the Baha'i is to be the lover of God. And to
> love God means to love everything and everybody (in a pure way), for
> all are of God (remember that Baha'is view God as transcendent so
> please do not interpret this in a pantheistic fashion). A Baha'i should
> despise no one, for he (or she) will have learned to see the Face of
> the Beloved in every face, and to find His traces everywhere. His love
> should know no limit of sect, nation, class or race.
Yes, Rev. Moon teaches that all beings are a manifestation of God's
presence. Nature represents God in a symbolic way, and humans represent
God as His children, and reflect His nature. So, all humans are one
family, and God, as the parent of that family, does not prefer one race or
group over another.
> "Blessed is he who prefers his brother before himself; such a one is
> of the people of Baha." - Words of Paradise
You will know my disciples by whether they love one another - Jesus -
right in the same vein.
> Baha'u'llah says in the Hidden Words (Arabic No.3): "O Son of Man!
> Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My
> essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have
> engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty."
Yes, and God said to Job that he knitted him together in his mother's
womb and loved him. This is in full accord with our thelogical outlook.
> SEXUALITY: Sexuality is seen as a sacred blessing from God that is reserved
> for a married couple. Sexuality is not just an act of procreation, but an
> expression of the deep love of a man and woman.
Yes, the sexual love of man and woman, which is reserved only for husband
and wife, has several purposes:
(1) For bonding between the man and woman and the strengthening of the
love in the marriage relationship.
(2) The creation of life and a family,
and (3), this is unique to Unificationism as far as I know, the sexual
relationship between man and woman is the place where God and humans meet
in the perfect image of God. The ecstasy of the sexual union between
husband and wife who are both lovers of God becomes a triune relationship
in which God fully manifests His divine nature in man and woman and His
nature as creator and gives rise to a fourth being. This is our
understanding of the trinity, that each couple forms a trinity with God.
So, the Holy Spirit stands in for Jesus' bride in his trinity with the
Father. His trinity was only on the spiritual level, but it must be
manifested on the physical level as a man and woman for the Kingdom of God
to appear on Earth in the form of the family and lineage of the Messiah.
> >From "Baha'u'llah and the New Era" by J.E. Esslemont (p.164): "The
> Baha'i teachings enjoin monogamy, and Baha'u'llah makes marriage
> conditional on the consent of both parties and of their parents." In the
> Kitab-I-Aqdas (the Most Holy Book), Baha'u'llah says, "Enter into
> wedlock, O people, that ye may bring forth one who will make mention
> of Me... (p.17)"
Right now, Rev. Moon matches many couples who recive the Blessing
of marriage in the Unification Church. So, he understands that
self-selected marriages are not the most stable, but still the
parties must consent to the match. In the future, it is likely that
parents, or church elders will suggest matches for couples. Dating
for the purpose of mate selection is discouraged, as the effect of
forming a bond and then breaking it affects the heart of the parties
in an adverse way. Our preference is to form a marriage on the
basis of shared values and commitment to an eternal marriage, rather
than on the fleeting attractions of appearance and lust.
> Premarital and extramarital sexual relationships are completely
> prohibited in the Baha'i Faith, reserving the intimacy of sexual
> intercourse as the appropriate expression of one's love and
> commitment within marriage (between a man and a woman).
Yes, we agree completely on this.
> Abdu'l-Baha says: "The marriage of Baha'is means that both man and
> woman must become spiritually and physically united, so that they
> may have eternal unity throughout all the divine worlds, and improve
> the spiritual life of each other. This is Baha'i matrimony." (Baha'i World
> Faith, p.372)
Oh, this is interesting. So you also teach eternal marriage. The
Mormon faith also teaches this. Yes, we believe that all love is
to be forever, and especially the love of husband and wife. And
that the marriage relationship is essential for spiritual growth.
In fact, Rev. Moon describes your spouse as your "second messiah",
and your children as your "third messiah", in that they assist you
in your spiritual growth.
> Allah'u'Abha,
> (God is Most Glorious!)
Yes, He is.
> DS
More coming .... :-)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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July 16, 1996
Subject: Re: Same-Sex Marriage
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel,alt.religion.christian.last-days,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.christnet.theology,alt.support.marriage
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On Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:25:22 -0500 Austin Cline (arcline@phoenix.princeton.edu) wrote:
> In article <4sccaa$gip@news2.cais.com>, damian@cais.cais.com (Damian J.
> Anderson) wrote:
> >God created us out of love to experience love in all its fullness.
> >We cannot experience the fullness of love without marriage and
> >having children.
> Ergo, Jesus Christ did not experience the fullness of love.
Correct. He was neither a husband nor a father.
> So, the root
> >of salvation must be in the family, not a single messiah but a
> >married messiah who becomes the role model for all people to create
> >God's ideal on the Earth.
> Ergo, Jesus Christ is not the messiah.
Well, Jesus did not completely fulfill the messianic mission. He
was prophesied in Isaiah 9 to come as the Eternal Father, yet he
was not able to accomplish that. If the people of his age had
accepted him and embraced his teachings, he may have done that. Even
God does not force people to repent. Instead, he sacrificed his
life and the possibility of having a family when he went the way
of martyrdom.
> Gotta love silly statements like those above. They lead to the most
> amusing conclusions....
Yes, such an amusing conclusion as the Kingdom of God on Earth.
What a sense of humor you have. :-) And who would have thought that
from such an auspicious seat of learning as Princeton?
> Austin Cline; German Department; Princeton University
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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