Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 28
May 20, 1996
Subject: Re: "Violations of Human Rights in Singapore"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.singapore,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,talk.politics.misc
References: <4nfhph$5oa@nuscc.nus.sg> <4nguc9$j9s@nuscc.nus.sg>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Distribution:
Tan Min-Han (med30065@leonis.nus.sg) wrote:
: NICHOLAS PHILIP LAZARUS (law30113@leonis.nus.sg) wrote:
: : Exactly what is this woman's religion? Funny how that crucial bit
: : is missing.
: I thought that was specified. The lady belongs to the Unification Church,
: better known to many of us as the 'Moonies', a cult led by Reverend Moon
: Sun Myung.
Is it okay to deny people their human rights based solely on their
religion? Did this woman do something wrong, or is this the
victimization of a small defenseless group of people? If it happens
to one group today, it could happen to you tomorrow. Tyranny is
not to be tolerated anywhere. And I for one state that I am a member
of the Unification Church and proud of it. For those who want to
find out more about it, you can consult my home page:
http://www.unification.net
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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May 20, 1996
On Mon, 20 May 1996, BCP wrote:
> thanks for your info. what is your view on deprogrammers?
My view of deprogrammers is that they make a living off an illegal
activity, namely the kidnapping and involuntary imprisonment of
individuals with the purpose of breaking their religious faith, although
they have done this to other people for a price too. So, I regard them as
criminals preying on the fears of ignorant people by telling them a story
that makes them afraid for the lives of their family members. Does that
make it clear enough? I also know several people who have been the
victims of such deprogramming attempts and it certainly damages family
relationships terribly when a parent has paid a group of thugs to kidnap,
beat up, and harangue a son or daughter until they break and recant their
faith. The ones I know tend to be the stronger ones who withstood it and
are still around to tell about it. The weaker ones often went on to
become deprogrammers themselves.
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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May 20, 1996
On Mon, 20 May 1996, BCP wrote:
> that was fast. how do you become a member? what sort of process do you have
> to go through?
I am online almost all day, since my work is on the Internet. To become a
church member, you just sign a membership form. If you would like to get
more information about the church, you may want to visit my web page, or
subscribe to my mailing lists. If you want to, I can add you to my lists.
Just let me know.
Tell me, how did you know to contact me, originally? Where did you get my
address? I'm just curious.
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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May 22, 1996
On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, ARLEEN J. CHATEAUNEUF wrote:
> It doesn't matter what type of fruit it was. what matters is
> the reason for partaking of it. As you know, they were innocent
> before eating adn and as God has given man his free agency to c
> choose between good and evil or right and wrong etc., he told them
> that Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
> what the Lord meant is not physical death but spiritual death
> because as we see they did not die immediately. They were
> placed in the Garden of Eden so as to have and an independent
> environment , to be ca able to choose, just as God cannot
> force us to choose righteousness, neither could Satan force us
> to choose evil.
Would a good God create a devil? Who created the devil? The question to
understand is how evil came about. The nature of the sin of the first man
and woman and the devil then becomes significant. You may get some
insight into Unification belief on this matter by reading the Divine
Principle at:
http://www.unification.net/dp73
> Adam and Eve had to be enticed but it was not
> a sin only a transgression of a command like telling your child
> not to do something and he does it. What do you do? You punish him.
> why do you punish him? for him to learn the difference. so through
> their choice spiritual death and physical death came into the
> world. without out that act none of ous us would exist. and
> because of spiritual death and physical death there became
> a need for our Savior Jesus christ to atone for Adam's transgression
> and our sins as well.
Certainly the death of Adam and Eve was spiritual and not physical. And
although Jesus died, there is still sin in the world, so the work of
defeating evil is not over yet.
> Hend Hence the scripture as "as in
> Adam , or by nature, they fall, even so the blood of christ atoneth
> for their sins.Also the scripture, Adam fell that men might
> be; and men are, that they might have joy. and, for "For
> behold
> and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who hav
> have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died
> hnot not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who
> have ignoratntly sinned.
Man can be forgiven for his sin, but he has yet to be able to inherit the
substance of God, the divine nature, as Jesus did. That is why Christ
must come again.
> Sorry for my typing.
> Arleen
No problem.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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May 22, 1996
Subject: Questions about God's Existence
I apologize for the delay in answering you.
On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 J329@aol.com wrote:
> Thank you for the clarification. If I may indulge you further?
> Why, in your view, does the Unification teachings not attempt to
> prove God's existence?
Instead of trying to prove God's existence, Unification teachings
take the approach of the scientific method. Assume that God exists
as an hypothesis. Then develop the ideas based on that assumption
and see whether they agree with reality. This is the same way in
which the basic assumptions and postulates of physics are verified.
Physics has not *proved* the special theory of relativity, but the
results agree so well with experiment that it is generally agreed
that its postulates are valid.
The Divine Principle is solidly grounded in rationality while at
the same time being a deeply spiritual teaching that transforms
the lives of those who hear it with an open heart.
> I'm thinking that your first premise that God exists is certainly
> worth such an effort in view of your later idea that humans fell
> from God's grace.
If indeed humans were created by an omnipotent good being, then
one must naturally ask how come they are not good today, in the
image of their creator. This naturally leads one to believe in a
fall from grace of some kind.
> It seems that if you're relying on people's having faith in this
> assertion then your approach is not so distinguishable from ordinary
> Protestant Christianity and your followers simply must accept and
> conform to your founder's idea.
No, our approach is fundamentally different from Protestant
Christianity. It does not depend on blind faith in the founder.
Rather, the founder pushes us out to experience the reality and
the suffering of God and the world for ourselves, by being constantly
in service to others, and through prayer and devotional study. The
Unification Church is almost totally outwardly focused. As a result,
rather than build churches, we build bridges to people around the
world. At the same time, a great degree of faith is expected of
the members of the Unification Church who are participating in the
global messianic mission of Rev. Moon.
> I am not criticizing this but am trying to understand from you if
> God's existence can be understood objectively or is God's existence
> forever a subjective reality?
God is the Ultimate Reality. His Being can be perceived by those
who purify their lives through repentance, prayer and service to
others. As Jesus said: "Blessed are the pure in heart, they shall
see God."
> Respectfully, J329
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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May 22, 1996
Re: UTexts: The Limit of Salvation through the Cross
On Thu, 16 May 1996, DCK wrote:
> Hello Damian,
>
> I'm curious why you keep posting this stuff on the
> alt.religion.christian group, since it is obvious that this is nothing
> related to the subject of Christianity.
Well, I would have thought that the subject of salvation though
the cross would be pretty central to the subject of Christianity.
> On Tue, 14 May 1996 17:05:38 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
> > DIVINE PRINCIPLE
> > PART I
> > CHAPTER 4. ADVENT OF THE MESSIAH
>
> >SECTION I - THE PROVIDENCE OF SALVATION THROUGH THE CROSS
>
> >4. THE LIMIT OF SALVATION THROUGH REDEMPTION BY THE CROSS, AND THE
> >PURPOSE OF THE LORD'S SECOND ADVENT
>
> >If Jesus had not been crucified, what would have happened? He would
> >have accomplished the providence of salvation both spiritually and
> >physically. He would have established the Kingdom of Heaven on earth
> >which would last forever, as expressed in the prophecy of Isaiah (Is.
> >9:6-7), in the instruction of the angel appearing to Mary (Luke
> >1:31-33), and in Jesus' own words announcing the imminence of the
> >Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 4:17).
>
> Not an earthly kingdom. Doesn't say it. Kingdom of Heaven is not
> Kingdom of earth.
>
> Pure and unadulterated speculation.
Not so. Jesus prayed for the Kingdom to come on earth, in the Lord's
Prayer: "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in
heaven." (Matt 6:10)
> > Man was created to have both spirit and body; his fall
> >also came about both spiritually and physically. Naturally, salvation
> >must include both spirit and body.
>
> Not a Biblical conclusion, and not in context with the Bible. Sorry.
Man's spirit is sinful since his mind is drawn to thinking about
evil, his body is drawn to doing evil deeds, so both are in need
of salvation. Look at St. Paul's description of the fight within
himself in Romans 7.
> 1 Cor 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot
> inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the
> imperishable.
>
> Flesh (your physical body) doesn't make it to be with God.
God's dwelling is to be with men on the earth. The book of Revelation
prophecies that this will happen at the time of the coming of
Christ. "Here God lives among men. He will make his home among
them; they shall be his people, and he will be their God."
(Rev 21:3)
> >Since the purpose of Jesus' advent as the Messiah was to accomplish
> >the providence of restoration, he should have fulfilled the salvation
> >of both spirit and body.
>
> Your conclusion is faulty because your premise is faulty. Sun Moon
> fails as a Biblical "scholar."
Why else did Jesus come? The world is sinful and in need of salvation.
Both body and soul are sinful and both must be saved from the
tendency to sin, so that we can be sinless and pure. Then God can
dwell with us.
The Apostle John says of Jesus:
"Now he appeared in order to abolish sin and that in him there is
no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin and anyone who sins
has never seen him or known him." (1 John 3:5-6)
So John is saying that Jesus came to do away with sin, yet the
world is still full of sin, so something was not finished.
> >To believe in Jesus means to become one body
> >with him;
>
> Word games. The church is His body, but we are not. In Genesis, we
> become one flesh with our wives in sexual intercourse. We do not do
> so with Jesus.
>
> We become one MIND with Jesus, but not one body.
To become one body with Jesus means to obey him, to keep his
commandments. Jesus said "On that day, you will understand that I
am in my Father, and you in me and I in you." (John 14:20). This
is not only in our minds, but in our actions. It does not imply
anying sexual, but that we have become the substantiation of God,
the incarnation of the divine nature as Jesus was.
> 1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit
> of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand
> them, because they are spiritually appraised.
> 1 Cor 2:15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he
> himself is appraised by no man.
> 1 Cor 2:16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE SHOULD
> INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.
>
> The natural (fleshly) man does not have the mind of Christ.
Then we must inherit the mind of Christ and make it a part of us.
The carnal sinful nature cannot have the mind of Christ, but the
physical body is not evil, it was created by God to be His temple.
Man's body must become the dwelling place of God.
> >therefore, Jesus likened himself to the true vine, and his
> >followers to its branches (John 15:5). He said, "...you will know that
> >I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you." (John 14:20). Jesus
> >said this because coming in the flesh, he wanted to save fallen men
> >both spiritually and physically.
>
> Totally out of context with the text. There is not one word in the
> text that would allow a physical abiding. Moon is giving you semantic
> junk that does not fit the text at all!
There is nothing in the text which would suggest that it is only
physical. Your ad hominems add nothing to your argument.
> >If they had become one with him in
> >both spirit and body by believing in him, fallen men could have been
> >saved both spiritually and physically. Because the Jewish people
> >disbelieved Jesus and delivered him up for crucifixion, his body was
> >invaded by Satan, and he was killed. Therefore, even when Christians
> >believe in and become one body with Jesus, whose body was invaded by
> >Satan, their bodies still remain subject to Satan's invasion.
>
> Again, sheer nonsense. First off, Jesus was indwelt by the Holy
> Spirit. His body was a Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Temple cannot
> be divided, nor can the Holy Spirit (who is weak) overpower the Holy
> Spirit (Who is strong). Sheer nonsense!
Jesus was delivered over to death at the hands of evil men who
defiled his body. His spirit was not claimed by evil, but his body
was destroyed by a lynch mob.
> >In this manner, however devout a man of faith may be, he cannot
> >fulfill physical salvation by redemption through Jesus' crucifixion
> >alone. Since the original sin lineally transmitted from Adam has not
> >been liquidated, any saint, however devout he may be, still has
> >original sin and cannot help giving birth to the children of original
> >sin.
>
> No child is guilty of his parent's sins. Or grandparent's sins.
>
> Ezek 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the
> punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the
> punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous
> will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon
> himself.
And then, the ten commandments say that the sin of the fathers will
be visited upon the chldren to the third and fourth generation.
(Ex 20:6) While a man may not be guilty of the sin of his ancestors,
he still bears their consequences. For example, even though I never
enslaved a black man, I as a white man bear the collective guilt
of my race for enslaving the black race. Amends must be made for
sin. You will not get out until you pay the last penny, Jesus said.
(Matt 5:26)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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May 22, 1996
From damian@unification.netWed May 22 12:34:26 1996
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:34:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
Reply to: damian@cais.cais.com
To: unif
Subject: RE: Response to your request
On Wed, 22 May 1996, BCP wrote:
> do you have to do any extensive fundraising?
I tithe 10 per cent of my income to the church and I occasionally
take part in funraising activities. since I am a professional, my
time is better spent working and then tithing the income.
> and why do you believe that sun myung moon and his wife is your
> father and mother?
I do not believe that they are my father and mother in a literal
sense. Rather, they are the ideal model couple whom I love and
respect and desire to emulate. The example of their lives is worthy
of emulating. The position of True Parents is the messianic mission,
the representatives of God who is the universal parent. So, God is
my parent, and the True Parents are their earthly representatives.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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May 24, 1996
Subject: When did Jesus choose to go to the cross?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References:
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Reed Darsey (ca347@torfree.net) wrote:
: The bigger picture, from the Divine Principle perspective, is that the
: time period we are discussing is the point where Jesus realized that
: both *physical* and spiritual salvation, the Kingdom of Heaven on
: Earth, was no longer possible, and that at least his death on the
: cross would allow the spiritual salvation of man.
: Chronologically, in the beginning of his ministry, Jesus preached that
: the Kingdom was at hand (Matt. 4:17, Mk. 1:14). But, in the last year
: of his ministry, due to the lack of acceptance, he changed to
: preaching about a kingdom "not of this world" (meaning only spiritual)
: and the need for his death and return. (Acts 3:21, 1Peter 1:5, Rev.
: 21:1.)
: The smaller picture, starting from Luke 9:1 is that Jesus had sent the
: disciples out preaching, then changed what his disciples should say
: about him to the public. This would seem to be "deception" as you
: define it.
Rev. Moon teaches that the time at which Jesus decided to go to
the cross was when he went to pray on the Mountain of Transfiguration,
mentioned in Matt 17. Before this, he was preaching the coming of
the Kingdom of Heaven. When he saw that the people would not accept
him as the Messiah, he went the way of martyrdom as a testimony of
his love to sinful humanity whom he loved despite their killing
him.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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May 25, 1996
Re: When did Jesus choose to go to the cross?
On Sat, 25 May 1996, Georg Gronauer wrote:
> As the second hypostasis of the eternal god,he decided to go to the cross
> before he was born.Because the first hypostasis of the trinity was so
> angry about his creatures,the second=the son decided to die,because the
> father,although allknowning and allmigthy let his poor creatures fall
> into sin.
I don't think that Jesus made any of his life decisions before he was
born, since he was not conscious before birth any more than I was.
As for God being angry, yes, God was angry, shedding bitter tears, hurt,
broken hearted, lonely, disappointed, grieving, frustrated, and many other
things. But, because he is the loving infinitely merciful and principled
Absolute Being, He raised up Jesus as the Messiah to save humanity from
sin and the lamentations of the sinful world we live in. The people, deep
in their sin and self-delusion, failed to recognize their deliverer, and
murdered their savior. He gave his life and loved those who hated him, in
the hope that such a testimony of love would break the carapace of
delusion and wake people up to God's infinite love for us, His children,
despite our sin. So, Christ must come again, and let's hope that this
time, we don't make the same mistake again, but pray earnestly and
constantly, that we will never again commit such a heinous crime as to
murder God's anointed, but will instead welcome with open arms, and do
God's will as he expresses it to us.
He has come, and he is gathering all people to God. His name? Sun Myung Moon.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
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June 4, 1996
Rev. Sun Myung Moon's activities in Latin America
dfready@delphi.com (Douglas Ready) wrote:
> > No Korean is world-wide famous.
> > ...
> But at least one is world-wide infamous:
> "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon of the Unification Church/
> "Moonies" fame.
> I hear he is considering e joint venture with:
> "Bishop" Edir Macedo of Brazil.
> Regards,
> /\/\../\/\
> `' "Douglas"
Rev. Sun Myung Moon has spent a lot of time in Latin America recently, and
was there the last few days. He has met with the President of Brazil and
many other leaders of the country, and other Latin American countries. He
has made large investments in Uruguay, such as a luxury hotel and a
newspaper, Ultimas Noticias. He is currently educating Christian ministers
in the ideas that he has been teaching for the last 40 years in an effort
to revive the Christian spirit in North and South America and to bring
about unity between Christians of the two continents.
In addition to teaching a religious vision of the world, he is taking
practical steps to assist developing countries in acquiring technology and
training necessary for real growth and development to occur. He has bought
land in the Campo Grande area and plans to build model communities to
exemplify the ideas that he teaches. He has also acquired land in
Paraguay, Argentina, and Uruguay. There was recently a major ecumenical
conference in Montevideo, Uruguay hosted by Rev. Moon. Religious leaders
from North and South America participated.
Also, I have visited both Brazil and South Korea and found them both to be
beautiful countries. Each has distinct value that can be gained from the
other. Why bicker about who is better? For more information about Rev.
Moon and his teachings and activities, you may consult my Web page listed
below.
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 13 languages and growing.
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June 4, 1996
Subject: Re: BIF: The Position of the Blessed Couples
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
References: <4oqkkt$ka6@nexus.polaris.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
mccaskey@polaris.net wrote:
: Damian J. Anderson (damian@unification.net) wrote:
: : "Blessing and Ideal Family"
: : by Reverend Sun Myung Moon
: Moon is a false prophet and therefore not of God. He teaches heresies and
: blashpemies contrary to the Bible and therefore whould be avoided. He is
: also a criminal, liar and thief. Do not deceived by Moon. The Unification
: church is not Christian, but instead is a cult.
"Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut up
the kingdom of heaven in men's faces, neither going in yourselves
nor allowing others to go in who want to.
Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You who travel
over sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when you have
him you make him twice as fit for hell as you are."
Matt 23:13-15 ... and so on. You get the picture.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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June 7, 1996
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From: Tim Elder
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology
Subject: Re: BIF: The Position of the Blessed Couples
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 16:14:03 +0900
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Dennis Smith wrote:
> This is an excellent suggestion Tim. Can you tell us if you believe Sun Myung
> Moon is the Messiah? If you do believe Sun Myung Moon is the Messiah can you
> explain to us what has convinced you of this.
>
> Thanks,
> I'd be glad to. I will explain my views in very brief summary.
Do I believe that Rev. Moon is the Messiah? Yes, I do. But it's not Rev. alone.
I believe that Rev. AND Mrs. Moon stand together in the messianic role. On a
different level, I -- and every other person in the world - must fulfill a
certain messianic role -- though on a much smaller scale than that of Rev. and
Mrs. Moon.
I believe that when Rev. Moon was 16 years old, Jesus appeared to him in a vision
one day as he prayed on a mountainside not far from him home in what is today
North Korea. I believe that Jesus asked Rev. Moon to complete the work that he was
forced to leave uncompleted 2,000 years ago, when people refused to heed his call
for repentance and chose, instead, to crucify him. That work, I believe, consists
of building the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and in heaven in accordance with God's
original plan of creation.
What convinced me that Rev. Moon is the Messiah? It was a process that included
both rational thought and prayer. I first came into contact with Rev. Moon's
teachings in October 1974, in New York. My parents were (actually, my father still
is) United Methodist missionaries in Japan, and I was baptized into the United
Methodist Church when I was 11 years old. By the time I graduated from college,
however, I had become disillusioned in the ability of the Methodist Church -- or
any other church, for that matter -- to carry out a ministry that would make a
real difference in peoples' lives around the world.
Rev. Moon has spelled out a vision for the kingdom of heaven on earth and in heaven,
and is devoting his life to the accomplishment of that vision. That convinces me
that he -- together with Mrs. Moon -- is the Messiah.
I have had a number of occasions to meet with Rev. Moon. On the personal level, he
impresses me as a man of love. He preaches true love, and from every indication that
I have, he practices what he preaches.
I am more apt to think of Rev. and Mrs. Moon more in the context of "True Parents."
This means I believe that they are fulfilling the parental role in relation to the
rest of humanity that Adam and Eve would have been able to fulfill, had they not
committed sin but had grown to fulfill God's purpose of creation.
I suspect that you may disagree with some/much/perhaps even all of what I've said.
I'd be interested to hear your views.
Tim Elder
June 7, 1996
Subject: Re: Rev. Sun Myung Moon activies in Latin America
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Tim Elder (telder@unitel.co.kr) wrote:
: mobile@panix.com wrote:
: >
: > Dear Tim: you're a living example of "braiwashing"
: > Paul
: I take it, then, that your definition of "brainwashing"
: is "the intellectual state of anyone who
: holds an opinion that is different from my own." Am I right?
: (BTW, if I get three rights, does that give me a left? ;-) just curious).
I just have to chuckle. This Paul fellow is so far wrong, he thinks
he is right! :-)
I guess "brainwashed" is in the eye of the beholder, or the one
holding the soap. ;-) Heaven knows, with the filth going around in
America, some people need a good washing, inside and out. In
religious terms, that is usually called repentance. Maybe "brainwashing"
is the secular term for that.
: Tim Elder
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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