Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 21
Jan 20 1996
Subject: Re: End of the world predicted by Moon ?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4dku7h$rrt@status.gen.nz>, groberts@iconz.co.nz (Gerard Roberts)
: wrote:
: >There's a lot of really good Unificationist literature there for people
: >who are serious about understanding and commenting on Rev Moon's teaching
: >and his oustanding achievements.
: I'm looking for the stuff behind the PR.
What you read in the Unification Home Page are the materials that
Unification Church members buy and read. If you really want to keep
up on what is being taught in the church, read the "Unification
News" or the "Today's World", both of which are published monthly
in New York. Now the best thing would be to learn Korean and then
you would have access to the more than 200 volumes of Rev. Moon's
speeches which have been published since 1956 in Korean. There is
an effort under way to translate and publish them in English. That
takes both time and money. The initiator of that project undertook
that on his own expense and told me that it has cost him $20,000
per volume, if my memory serves me right.
I have the first 4 volumes in English, and then I have all Rev.
Moon's speeches published in America since 1976 since a standard
system for extemporaneous translation and transcription was set
up. These translations cannot do justice to his words however, as
a translator of a text has the time and luxury to find just the
right word and expression, and can use dictionaries and other
references. So, a translator who does so as the speaker is speaking is
at a severe disadvantage.
Other than that, you would have to attend church or come to leaders'
meetings to know what is being said. For those who cannot attend
for whatever reason, such as being on another continent, there are
those publications and now the Unification Home Page provides a
lot of information, though it is not an official church project,
but my own initiative, and I pay for it.
If you are interested, I can get you subscription information and
you will see from the offerings of the Accord Book Store in New
York what people in the church buy to read.
: >So when Rev Moon talks about the end of the world he is not talking
: >about the physical destruction of our world. He is talking about
: >(and all his activities are ushering in) the transformation of the
: >sinful world, in which we currently live, into a world centred on
: >God's true love, ie the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
: Oh how conveeeeenient. This does sound to me as if he had talked
: about "the end of the world" and it didn't came, so he redefined it.
: redefinition of words is a common tool of cult leaders.
No, this is the original teaching of the church on the last days.
You may find it as a whole chapter in the Divine Principle under
the title "The Consummation of Human History" and it is at the
following URL:
http://www.unification.net/dp73/dp73-1-3.html
: >What does make Unificationists unique is that we believe Rev Moon
: >is the Lord of the second advent. Based on his teachings and his
: >achievements I think he is well qualified.
: Is the "second advent" the same as "the second coming" ?
Yes, it is.
: I mean can I say "Moon says that he's the second coming" ?
: Or did he not say it but somehow every UC, CARP, CAUSA, etc person
: believes it ?
Yes, he did say it, and you can read that under "The Proclamation
of the Messiah" which consists of two speeches:
http://www.unification.net/pr-mes
* At the Crossroads of Good and Evil, July 16, 1972, Chong-ro,
Seoul, Korea
* The Reappearance of the Second Coming and the Completed Testament
Era, January 10, 1993, Belvedere International Training Center
They are separated by 21 years, so you judge for yourself whether
his teachings changed significantly.
: Tilman
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 22 1996
Subject: Re: How many members ?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4dncbv$bqg@news4.digex.net>, dsmith@access.digex.net wrote:
: >I would estimate the membership here in the US at about 7500 to
: >8000. This is based on internal Unification Movement documents that
: >indicated the NY/NJ area member count at 1354 on March 19, 1990
: >and about 750 in the Washington, DC area as of June 23, 1990. One
: >of the biggest problems in estimating membership is the constant
: >influx of foreign members.
: Thanks... Now I would like to know the membership in Germany.
I don't have that information.
: Btw, I remember that Damian once said he would look up the Berlin
: address after I told him that they aren't even in the phone book.
Yes, I did, but then you said you were not interested. Actually,
since Andy is in the same building as the World Mission Department,
would you please look up the Berlin address as I have no source
here to do so. I would have to call New York. :-)
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 22 1996
Subject: Re: The perfect wife
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Frank Kaufmann (fortl@nyc.pipeline.com) wrote:
: On Jan 21, 1996 12:41:03 in article ,
: 'tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr)' wrote:
: >I am searching a quote about children, i.e. that one can/should only
: >have children from a "perfect wife". Yours only concerns the mother.
: >
: >Tilman
:
: Of course you're wrong, as usual. My remarks do not only concern the
: mother to the exclusion of a woman's role as wife. But I admit your
: correction IS helpful. I could have better ecpressed myself in the above
: passage in the following way: Ideally a woman should perfect herself
: before marriage where she is expected to fulfill the awsome
: responsibilities of wife and mother... A man shoudl do the very same thing
: vis a vis his roles and responsibilities as husband and father.
:
: More importantly though; Is your point that you are looking for a QUOTE
: per se? Or are you trying to understand Unification teachings about family
: relations. If it is the former, then, as I've already said I do don't have
: such a quote right off-hand, and I am unwilling to do your homework for
: you. If it is the latter, however, I am certainly happy to help in any way
: I can.
One of the best resources for Unificationist teachings on marriage
and family life is the book "Blessing and Ideal Family" which is
available on my home page under the URL:
http://www.unification.net/bif
There is a good possibility that you will be able to find a quote
there on the desirability of spiritual maturity before marriage.
: Sincerely,
:
: Frank
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 22 1996
Subject: Re: Churches bash Moon weddings
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4dk37f$e8v@pipe11.nyc.pipeline.com>, fortl@nyc.pipeline.com (Frank
: Kaufmann) wrote:
: >Tilman, if you come by any more powerful articles like this be sure to post
: >them. I don't know about others, but I have to say it certainly helped me.
: >I might as well be honest here, before reading Lee, I thought mass weddings
: >were RIGHT. Boy was I confused.
: I also posted very long articles. But I have noticed that only the short
: articles are commented (rather, mocked). I guess you guys don't have
: time or literacy for everything above 50 lines, e.g. the very exposing
: articles about the Moonification camp in Napa County.
Excuse me Tilman, but Frank does have a Ph.D. so he must at least
be able to read! :-) In fact, I think that he is the President of
the Inter-Religious Federation for World Peace. Is that right,
Frank? I have three advanced degrees, so I guess I know how
to read too. :-)
I browsed throught the Napa stuff, but it just looked like the same
old drivel that people used to write about us in the 1970s. I was
interviewed when I was a student at Cambridge University in England
in 1978, and the guy said the most outrageous things about me and
the church which had no basis in fact. They were just regurgutations
of the old charges that he probably found in the clip files. That
seriously affected my inclination to trust the media.
: Tilman
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 22 1996
Subject: Re: Andrew responds to Tilman on Hassan
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Keith Bennett (kbennett@cpcug.org) wrote:
: >>That's pretty clear. It is clear-cut deception, and Hassan thought so
: >>much of it that he put it in his book as an example of how he conducts his
: >>business.
: Andy -
: It was clearly stated in church writings, speeches, etc., that deception
: is acceptable as long as it is for the "higher" purpose. This "heavenly"
: deception is exactly the kind of thing these parents were doing. So if
: you believe deception for a "higher" purpose is acceptable on one side, I
: think it would be fair to understand its use on the other.
Could you please back up your statement that the Unification Church
justifies deception? If you have evidence, please state the name
of the publication and where the statement appears. This is a charge
frequently made by our critics, but you will not find it taught
within the Unification Church.
: Keith Bennett Bennett Business Solutions, Inc.
: Silver Spring, MD USA OS/2 & DOS Software Development
We are neighbors, I am in Montgomery Village, Maryland.
: kbennett@cpcug.org (301) 871-7696
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 22 1996
Subject: Re: End of the world predicted by Moon ?
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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SALVATORE E INDIOGINE (sindiogi@nmsu.edu) wrote:
: AndyBacus (andybacus@aol.com) wrote:
: : Rev. Moon has never predicted the end of the world in the physical sense,
: : only that the sinful world would pass away.
: : Andrew
: Interestingly Mr. Moon is using Bahai Writings on this subject too. In
: His book called "Book of Certitude", Lord Bahaullah explains many of the
: terms regarding the Return, New heavens and new earth, and so on.
I doubt that. It is very possible that Rev. Moon never came into
contact with Bahai teachings in his native Korea, though if something
is true, it does not hurt if people arrive at it from different
directions.
: Mr. Moon, as I am finding out, is using several Bahai teachings that were
: revealed to the world 150 years ago. Mr. Moon is using these pure
: Teachings to use them in his odd system of mythology that reminds me
: of Middle Age preachings with their obsession with Satan, sex, and, of
: course, inferiority of women.
Rev. Moon does not teach that women are inferior to men. Indeed,
God created them last and did a better job on them! :-) He teaches
that men and women find equality in love, that they have equal
value but different roles.
: The more I get to know about Mr. Moon, the more I realize that he is no
: Messiah material. I strongly encourage all UC members to read the Writings
: of Lord Bahaullah to encounter the real messiah and world redeemer. Do
: not accept imitations!
Now you disappoint me, Eric. Your faith teaches some very good
things and I applaud that, but don't knock Rev. Moon and the
Unification Church if it teaches things that disagree with those
of the Bahais.
: Eric Indiogine (sindiogi@nmsu.edu), Dept. Civil, Agricultural,
: and Geological Engineering, New Mexico State University,
: Las Cruces, New Mexico, U.S.A.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 25 1996
Subject: Re: To Zaynab and her heavy heart
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Frank Kaufmann (fortl@nyc.pipeline.com) wrote:
: >Anyhow, three years ago when I spoke to a Unificationist friend by
: >phone, she said she had never heard of the Baha'i Faith. Now I ask
: >myself, why, if Baha'u'llah was important enough to be Moon's
: >"forerunner", why, why, why didn't she know anything about Him??
:
: Zaynab. I know of few people who study Reverend Moon's life and teachings
: more than I have. (Perhaps Damian knows more than me). But I must say, I
: have NEVER heard of ANY remarks by Reverend Moon about Baha'i issues. As I
: said. If he did. It was an EXTREMELY passing, and NON-CENTRAL remark.
:
: The fact of the matter is that Unificationism just has NO INTERFACE with
: Baha'i faith. Really NONE!
:
: >She's been in your church over 20 years... but for some reason
: >nothing of the Baha'i Faith or the "forerunner" Baha'u'llah was
: >taught. Very strange?
:
: It's not so strange. That Damian has access to some off-hand remark from
: the sixties is what is strange.
The remark comes from a transcription of a question and answer
session with Rev. Moon on his visit to America in 1965. He was
asked about the position of Baha'u'llah, and he replied that
Baha'u'llah was in the position of a forerunner. It was a one line
question and a one line answer. Rev. Moon does not teach about the
Baha'i faith, and I have never seen another mention of it.
However, there are many references to the Baha'i faith in the World
Scripture as there are to many other faiths. EVERY religion is a
forerunner to the Christ who is expected, and Rev. Moon is that
man, according to Unification faith.
I hope this clears up the confusion.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 27 1996
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Adultery
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam
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SALVATORE E INDIOGINE (sindiogi@nmsu.edu) wrote:
: So, if adultery is "The foremost of sinful actions" why does Mr. Moon
: teach that the mother of Jesus committed adultery with Zacharias, the
: father of John the Baptist?
There are many instances in the Bible of sexual acts which appear
immoral by the literal interpretation of the law. Tamar had
intercourse with her father-in-law, yet was said to have great
faith, because she perpetuated the lineage of the Messiah at the
price of her life. (Gen 38). Ruth laid down with Boaz to whom she
was not married in order that he would claim her as a wife. She
was the grandmother of King David.
Sarah pretended to be Abraham's sister and was taken as the wife
of the Pharaoh (Gen 12:10-20) and later by the King of Gerar (Gen
20), both times with the agreement of her husband.
As a general rule, murder is against God's law, but on occasion,
God has commanded men to kill. God ordered Saul to kill the
Amalekites, sparing neither man nor woman (1 Sam 15:3) and disowned
him as king when he disobeyed (1 Sam 15:10-23).
So, there are instances when God has allowed or even commanded
someone to have a sexual relationship with someone other than their
spouse. Since no marriage born out of the evil world is sanctioned
by God, then He can do that. But we are not to break our promise
to God and our spouse by committing adultery as it is an abomination
under heaven and breaks the hearts of many people, especially if
it results in offspring, or divorce.
What do you think that Mary was commanded to do when the angel
spoke to her? Jesus was a man so he certainly had a physical father
and Joseph was not his father.
You may notice that each of the women mentioned in Jesus' lineage
in Matthew's gospel did something against the law in regard to
adultery, yet were honored by God. They were Tamar, Rahab, Ruth,
Bathsheba (Uriah's wife) and Mary.
This is a difficult question to deal with, and the truth cannot be
understood in a simplistic way, but only with heartfelt prayer and
repentance and a pure heart.
: Eric Indiogine (sindiogi@nmsu.edu), Dept. Civil, Agricultural,
: and Geological Engineering, New Mexico State University,
: Las Cruces, New Mexico, U.S.A.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 29 1996
Subject: Re: End of the world predicted by Moon ?To Salvatore, formerly Eric
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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DeResidenz (DeResidenz@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: >>Again, I assert, as I did to Zaynab, that you are more than free and
: welcome to proselytize your religion here among the Unificationists. It
: does not strike me as respectful of another sincere and legitimate
: community of faith, But if that is want you want to do. Please feel free
: to do so. I doubt you will find Unificationists hunting down a Baha'i
: newsgroup so as to arrogantly insist that Baha'is read Unifcation writings.
: Sincerely,
: Frank<<
: Actually, you will find that Damian did.
I have posted rarely on soc.religion.bahai but not to insist that
others read Unificationist writings. The newsgroup is moderated,
so only postings which talked about the Baha'i faith were accepted
anyway.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 29 1996
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Adultery
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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David R Sopha (sophadav) wrote:
: How can one be so blind! Jesus is part man - THE PART CAME FROM
: MARY !!! The other part came from the divine intervention of god
: the FATHER - FATHER -get it. If he cna make the world don't you
: think he can inpreggnate a woman?
Each of us gets part of our nature from our mother and part from
our father and part from God. What was different about Jesus was
that he was born from a lineage that God had prepared and God gave
him the messianic mission to accomplish. But Jesus surely had a
mother and a father just like every other human being.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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