Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 20
Jan 2, 1996
Subject: Re: Moon buys Sen Grassley, Helms and Lugar
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <30d85ed7.3722047@news.snafu.de> <4bo19p$pha@zippy.cais.net> <30dface3.821568@news.snafu.de> <4bt32k$6m4@malasada.lava.net> <30e2698d.3409744@news.snafu.de> <4c2j5k$jtf@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4c6un4$bhv@linet02.li.net>
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Merchant of Chaos (peegee@newshost.li.net) wrote:
: Laszlo Weress (laszlozw@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: : Who, what, where. Evidence. You always screaming for facts, yet not
: : too liberal giving any.
: : Laszlo Z. Weress
: Apparently Moon hasn't allowed you to read the MacLean's article that
: came out last October. Lots o' facts in there, that's for sure...
How very quaint! The Merchant of Deception thinks that a 75 year
old religious leader can control what his followers all around
the world read on a daily basis. Do you still believe in Santa
Claus? :-)
If Laszlo knows about the article and wants to read it, he is free
to do so. There is no Unificationist thought police who are going
to tell him not to read it. That kind of restriction to access to
information is much more likely to come in American oh-so-politically
correct universities, than to the hundreds of thousands of
Unificationists who are free to read what they please. Get real!
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 2, 1996
Subject: Re: Driving Principle: Some things never change (by Steve Hassan)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <30d861cf.4481440@news.snafu.de> <4bo5lv$qdk@zippy.cais.net> <30dfcaf7.8400668@news.snafu.de> <4bqpt0$9qf@zippy.cais.net> <30e11500.1748592@news.snafu.de> <4bt5us$6m4@malasada.lava.net> <30e26b67.3883966@news.snafu.de>
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4bt5us$6m4@malasada.lava.net>, Rich Rubasch
: wrote:
: >I have long considered my purpose and role in this world. I have read
: >Norman Cousins, Hans Kung, C. S. Lewis, Huston Smith and many others. I
: >have also read the Divine Principle by Reverend Sun Myung Moon.
: Well that's not so sure if the DP is written by Moon. Some detractors
: claim that the DP was just a plagiarism of the books "Divine basic
: principles" and "Theology of the holy spirit" by Kim Baek-Moon.
This "some detractors claim ..." argument is a convenient way to
make a slur. For example, "Some detractors claim that Christians
eat babies and drink their blood." "Some detractors claim that
Tilman is XXX." You fill in the blank. Just because someone makes
an unsubstantiated claim does not justify your repeating it as
fact. If you don't know it is fact, why repeat it?
For your information, Rev. Moon taught his early disciples the
Divine Principle, and Rev. Hyo Won Eu wrote them down and Rev. Moon
checked over his work at each step. So, you may say that it was
co-written by the two men, but the ideas were Rev. Moon's. You
may ask why he did not write it himself, and I would have to say
that I don't know.
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 5, 1996
Subject: Re: Steve Hassan's deceptive exit counselling
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
References: <30e014cd.13615797@news.snafu.de> <4bq325$hhh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <30e134ed.9913907@news.snafu.de> <4c192m$mo9@zippy.cais.net> <30e431c1.21808245@news.snafu.de> <4c2kq0$fln@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4ccu15$ni@sundog.tiac.net>
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Steven Hassan (shassan@tiac.net) wrote:
: I challenge any leader of the Moon group to an in- person debate about
: the Divine Principle, the methods of recruitment and indoctrination, the
: Bible, and Moon's multi-billion dollar conglomerate. Such a debate will
: be held in a public forum (I would be happy to travel to New York, where
: "Headquarters" are located) and will be videotaped and transcribed. I
: believe that if the Moon followers truly believe that they have the
: "Truth", they will welcome such an exchange of information. I suspect we
: might even be able to interest a network to film the event.
This offer of Steve Hassan is akin to a Ku Klux Klan leader inviting
the late Martin Luther King Jr. or another civil rights leader to
debate their accusations against blacks in a public forum. Given
the level of rhetoric and violence against members of the Unification
Church by professional kidnappers, deprogrammers and exit counselors,
what possible advantage could there be to members of the Church
debating with Hassan? It would provide Hassan with a forum to spout
his hatred and venom towards a group that he makes no secret of
despising. But there would be no advantage for the Unification
Church.
No thanks, Steve. We will continue to offer what we do to the
general public and you will have to create your own forum for
venting. I will not do it, and I would not recommend that any other
Unificationist leader do so.
: Unfortunately, Moon leaders will not allow such a thing to take place.
: The reason: Information control. They do not want members to see me tell
: what I have experienced and what I have learned. They do not want
: members to think. Obedience to the "True Parents". That is the only way
: to the "Kingdom of Heaven".
Not at all. We have better things to do with our time and more
productive audiences to talk to. Why waste our breath on you?
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 10, 1996
Subject: Re: Reincarnation of Heung Jin Nim
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <199601042016.VAA27289@utopia.hacktic.nl> <30ed77d8.41290308@news.snafu.de>
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <199601042016.VAA27289@utopia.hacktic.nl>, Anonymous
: wrote:
: > Some Unification Church members are upset because their church
: >founder, Rev. Sun Myung Moon, believes one of his followers from
: >Zimbabwe is the reincarnation of his son, according to a report
: >published Wednesday.
: > The affair began last fall at the Unification Theological Seminary
: >in upstate New York, where a senior named Charles was believed to be
: >hearing and relaying messages from Rev. Moon`s deceased son, ``Lord``
: >Heung Jin Nim, the Washington Post said, quoting former and present
: >church members.
: Is this scam still active ?
: Is reincanation part of the "divine principle" ?
: Is this an official Moon policy ?
Reincarnation is NOT part of the belief system of the Unification
Church. For the official doctrinal position of the Church on the
subject, see the Divine Principle section called:
The Theory of Reincarnation Viewed from the Standpoint of
Resurrection Through Second Coming.
You can find it at the following URL:
http://www.unification.net/dp73/dp73-1-5.html#2.4
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 12, 1996
Subject: Re: Hassan-Bacus Debate
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4cru1h$3b9@linet02.li.net>
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Merchant of Chaos (peegee@newshost.li.net) wrote:
: Hey! This is going to be good!!! Only one question...why is that only
: high-ranking Moonies like Andy Bacus and Peter Ross have the guts to go
: face-to-face with Steve Hassan? Can't the average, ordinary Moonie speak
: up for himself? Laszlo? Damian?
Well, Steve Hassan has a lot of acusations about things that happened
in the church in America in the 1970s when he was a member. I was
not in America at that time and so I have no first hand knowledge.
My experience is as a member of the church in Europe in the late
1970s, in New England in the early 1980s and in Washington DC over
the last 11 years but I am not informed as to all the things that
go on in the church. You could say to me, well what about X? and
I would say that I had never heard of X. Andy Bacus and Peter Ross
are both attorneys and well acquainted with the controversies
associated with the church and are in better command of the facts.
I would be happy to talk about our theology, but I am not an
apologist for the practices of the church or its mistakes. My
preference is to dialogue with people who want to have a mutually
beneficial discussion and a furtherance towards the solving of the
problems in the world that cause agony and grief to millions of
people and to God Himself. Debating with the likes of Steve Hassan
does not seem to be a good use of my time.
On the other hand, Rev. Moon teaches us to love everyone of similar
age to us as our brothers or sisters, to love those older than us as
our parents or grandparents, uncles and aunts, and to love those
younger than us as our children, grandchildren, nephews and nieces.
So, in this spirit, when he was under attack from the US prosecutor
Martin Flumenbaum, he said to his wife that he and she must love
him more than the baby in her womb. So, my response to Steve is to
say that I wish him well, and I hope that one day he recognizes
the harm that he is doing and repents and that God will be merciful
to him on the day of judgement, which is coming soon.
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 12, 1996
Subject: Re: New Years Wishes
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4c5brs$7eb@usenet.kornet.nm.kr> <4crq7a$3b9@linet02.li.net>
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Merchant of Chaos (peegee@newshost.li.net) wrote:
: SeKeo (kornet) (sgtimes@soback.kornet.nm.kr) wrote:
: :
: : My wish for 1996 is that Tilman will come to understand the following:
: What's this?!!! Tim isn't wishing anything for me??!! The Moonies don't
: love me anymore!!!! I can't even get love-bombed by the Moonies!!! How
: depressing!!!
So there we have it. One man's love-bombing is another man's being
showered with attention. Everyone likes such care and attention,
so it is unfortunate that when we love as Jesus taught us to love,
that we are then accused of having ulterior motives. Ah well.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 13, 1996
Subject: Re: German TV: "Mit Moon zum Honeymoon"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,de.soc.weltanschauung
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,de.soc.weltanschauung
References: <30f59446.6085580@news.snafu.de>
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: Di 23.1 22:15 ZDF
: Mit Moon zum Honeymoon
: Massenhochzeit in der Sekte
: Reportage von Martin Blachmann
: u.a. "Für die Vermittlung kassierte er jeweils bis zu 43500 Mark"
Well, I don't get ZDF - (Is that Zud-Deutsche Fernseh?). And my
German is poor enough that you would laugh at it, so I will not be
writing in German. Somehow, I don't expect fair treatment from
this TV show.
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 15, 1996
Subject: Re: Reincarnation of Heung Jin Nim
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification
References: <4d1j0u$g5k@zippy.cais.net> <4d655h$4er@news4.digex.net>
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dsmith@access.digex.net wrote:
: My understanding of the situation with the member from Zimbabwe is
: that Sun Myung Moon dispatched Rev. Kwak to Zimbabwe with a series
: of questions to ask. Only Moon's son would have the answer to the
: questions. This was the only way to verify if it was infact Heung
: Jin Nim communicating from beyond. Kwak came back with the answers
: and shortly thereafter the guy is touring church centers channeling
: Heung Jin Nim. I would assume that Kwak came back with the correct
: answers or it would have ended there. My questions for Damian is:
: Do you believe this guy from Zimbabwe was channeling Heung Jin Nim?
I don't believe that this guy was authentic. I opposed him at the
time and I think he was a fraud. There is an inherent problem with
people having spiritist experiences in that they tend to become
arrogant and think that they are above all others, and then go
seriously off the track. He was certainly one of this category.
: D.Smith
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 16, 1996
Subject: Re: Hassan-Bacus Debate
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4cru1h$3b9@linet02.li.net> <4d6ndn$uop@zippy.cais.net> <30f6fcd9.705017@news.snafu.de>
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4d6ndn$uop@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >On the other hand, Rev. Moon teaches us to love everyone of similar
: >age to us as our brothers or sisters, to love those older than us as
: >our parents or grandparents, uncles and aunts, and to love those
: >younger than us as our children, grandchildren, nephews and nieces.
: So, do you love Steve Hassan ?
Yes, I do. I would say that my implementation of it would fall into
the TOUGHLOVE category however. If you love someone who is harming
you, it may not be the best policy to agree with them or to give
them what they want. The love of a parent towards a deviant teenager
may appear harsh, but that is what is needed.
God loves everyone and yet he punishes the unrighteous in order
that they may repent and turn to the ways of goodness. And in fact,
he asks those whom he loves the most to sacrifice themselves and
suffer often more than the unrighteous. Job is a notable example,
and Jesus is another. I try to take my example for how to behave
from how God behaves, as revealed in various scriptures.
: >So, in this spirit, when he was under attack from the US prosecutor
: >Martin Flumenbaum, he said to his wife that he and she must love
: Wasn't it James DeVita who did the job ?
I don't know that name, but there may have been someone by that
name involved. Andy would be likely to know that. But I am sure
that the main prosecutor was a young buck named Martin Flumenbaum,
out to make a name for himself. The book Inquisition has a large
amount of documentation on this and many other matters with detailed
footnotes on dates, places, documents and so forth. Even if you do
not like the tone of the book, it is a great source of documented
factual information about Rev. Moon and the Unification Church.
: >him more than the baby in her womb. So, my response to Steve is to
: >say that I wish him well, and I hope that one day he recognizes
: >the harm that he is doing and repents and that God will be merciful
: >to him on the day of judgement, which is coming soon.
: Sure. Moon had already set several (wrong) dates in the past. What's the
: current one ?
Please give quotes to support this. I think you are wrong on this.
Rev. Moon is not in the habit of giving dates for the day of
judgement. But no doubt we are living in the age know in the Bible
as the Last Days.
: Tilman
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Jan 16, 1996
Subject: Re: Hassan-Bacus Debate
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Steven Hassan (shassan@tiac.net) wrote:
: It is true that the Divine Principle lectures I listened to and
: responded to included the teachings of unconditional love. However,
: these are words and are Not practiced either in the group or outside of
: the group. I have not been "loved" by members once I left and spoke out.
: In fact, the group continually tells lies about me and mistreats me in a
: variety of ways too numerous to mention.
Ah, so there was something good in the teachings of the church
after all! :-) As with all great religious teachings, the ideal
may be great, but it ALWAYS hard to live up to. I can truthfully
say that I have met a larger number of people sincerely interested
in living a life of unconditional love in the Unification Church
than I have anywhere else, and I have lived and worked in four
countries and met many people. The higher the ideal, the easier it
is to fall short of it and then to be vulnerable to the accusation
of being a hypocrite. I have also met a lot of people who have
fallen short of their own ideals, myself included.
: I speak out against the group because I care about members and treat
: individuals with respect. Everything I have written in my book and web
: page is truthful and based on provable fact or personal experience.
I have not read your book. However, I take issue with your practice
of attempting to break the faith of others which I have heard talked
about on this forum. One would think that you would be able to
promote something good in the world rather than to try to tear down
the good that others are trying to do. Your emphasis is on a
negative, which cannot end up producing a positive. You must promote
a positive to end up with a positive result.
But, we in America live in a free society, and you are free to do
whatever you please within the bounds of the law, as we are too.
One day we will win you over too, but for now you are the loyal
opposition and will not let us get away with anything, and maybe
we need that. The only way our harshest critics will be won over
to our ideals is if we live them ourselves and if they are such
that they promote the wellbeing of everyone without exception.
: I do not fear Judgement Day, if there is going to be one. I have a clear
: conscience about my activities.
We are all to account for our thoughts, words and deeds on the day
of judgement, and there will be no double standard. One rule will
go for everyone.
If there are improper activities in the Unification Church and the
affiliated organizations, then I have an interest in reforming them
as it hurts our credibility if abuses exist. But when you cite
events that took place 20 years ago, that stretches my faith in
you. If there is current violation of the law, then you can have
charges pressed against us. If it is not illegal, then our activities
fall within the protection of the First Amendment. There may be
practices that you would regard as strange or unethical. But many
things that religious people do appear strange to the unbeliever.
Tithing would be one. Praying, fasting, sexual abstinence would be
others, and so on.
Whatever way in which you were mistreated or misunderstood by a
member or members of the Unification Church in the 1970s happened
a very long time ago. I cannot and will not comment on things that
happened to you 20 years ago in the Unification Church as I was
not there. But I can and will be happy to comment on what I know
the church is doing today.
For your own sake, you need to forgive those people and move on
with your life. I am sincerely interested in propagating the
message of the Unification Church because I think it is something
of great value. If you can dialogue with me in a tone of mutual
respect, then I can certainly do that too.
: I suggest you take time out to think reflectively about what I
: write and teach.
Tell me what you write and teach. I have no desire to buy your book
and subsidize your activities.
: I believe that the human spirit wants to be free and people want
: to know the truth!
I agree that the human spirit wants to be free and that people want
to know the truth. And I am a great believer in the human conscience
to discern good and evil, even if it takes a while for the good
and evil to become clear.
: Steve Hassan M.Ed, LMHC
Sincerely,
your brother, yes, really,
Damian Anderson MA (Cantab) (Math), MS (Comp Sci), Dipl. Rel Ed. :-)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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