Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 19
Dec 27, 1995
Subject: Re: Driving Principle: Some things never change (by Steve Hassan)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <30d861cf.4481440@news.snafu.de> <4bo5lv$qdk@zippy.cais.net> <30dfcaf7.8400668@news.snafu.de>
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: New readers: The original article is in ">:" and again at the end of the
: post.
: In <4bo5lv$qdk@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >
: >: From AFF - The Cult Observer July 1991
: >
: >: Moonies: "Things Never Change", by Steve Hassan
: >
: >: Mr. Hassan, once a member of the Unification Church, has been
: >: an exit counselor for almost fifteen years. He is the author
: >: of Combatting Cult Mind Control and has spoken and lectured
: >: widely on various aspects of the cult phenomenon.
: >
: >: The fatal Moonie van crash that killed 21-year-old David Ang
: >: and injured 22 others on January 5, 1992, made me remember my
: >: own near-fatal crash on April 23, 1976. It saddens me to realize
: >: that excessive speed, and probably exhaustion from lack of sleep,
: >: were to blame in both cases. When I crashed, I was a Moonie
: >: fundraising captain instructed to raise money on the streets
: >: of Baltimore. Fortunately, I was driving alone. In the recent
: >: accident, more than a score of persons was packed into a van
: >: that could safely hold only fifteen.
: >
: >Do you know the circumstances of the David Ang crash or are you
: >just making them up? As a whole, the life style of single members
: >living together in church centers, fundraising and witnessing is
: >a thing of the past for the majority of Unification Church members
: >in America. They tend to be married, working and raising families,
: >like the rest of the society.
: Ask Steve Hassan. He wrote it. Ask Andy Bacus. He is a reader of the AFF
: papers. Sometimes he writes scurrilous letters to AFF members.
How come Hassan can't speak for himself on this forum? Has the cat
got his tongue, or is he afraid of exposing his dark activities to
the bright light of public scrutiny?
: "A thing of the past". I hear this all the time. Does this mean that the
: concerns of society against the Moon cult was justified ? Does it mean
: that Moon will apologize to all the early members and their families ?
: Does this mean he will give the donations back ?
Just because the lifestyle of the members has changed does not mean
that what we did in the past was bad. The donations were used for
worthy causes and I have no regrets about any money I have raised
for or donated to the Unification Church. And there is no need to
apologize to the early members. They were always volunteers and
free to leave at any time. We were in a spiritual struggle to change
the spirit of America, to revive Christianity, to defeat communism
and to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the people to
establish Godly families. We have succeeded in making family values
a topic of daily conversation in America. Would Martin Luther King
Jr. have to apologize to the members of the civil rights who were
beaten or died in that struggle? They shed their blood, sweat and
tears voluntarily, and to apologize to them on the instigation of
the enemies of this struggle would defile their offering. The same
applies to the Unification Church.
: >David Ang was not a convert to Unificationism but was born into
: >the faith. I know both of his parents. His father worked at the
: >Unification Theological Seminary for many years.
: Hassan never alleged so. But thanks for the info. Thanks his cult
: parents, David Ang never had a chance.
: I wonder if his parents left, after losing their son.
His parents are both still members and I have spoken to his father
in the last few weeks. I am not sure of the details of this tragic
accident, but I know that the second generation members frequently
get together to do things, since their parents have been friends
for 20 to 30 years and the youth have known one another all their
lives in many cases. It is quite possible they were doing something
together that was not related to church activities. But to say that
he died because he happened to belong to the Unification faith is
absurd.
: >: Some things never change! Despite the jet-set life style
: >: of Moon, and the billion dollars in business investment and
: >: international politicking, the members are still treated like
: >: coolie labor. As far as I know, members still do not have health
: >: insurance and have no financial security for their futures.
: >: They remain psychological and financial slaves to a demagogue
: >: who purports to have love ten times greater than Jesus, or
: >: a saint.
: >
: >Well, you are wrong here. A very small percentage of church members
: >work full time for the church any more. What do you know about
: >current living conditions of missionary members of the Unification
: >Church? When were you last in touch with one such member?
: You say that I am wrong, because it's only a small percentage. So it's
: ok to use these as "coolie labor". Do these members have health
: insurance and financial security ?
Andy Bacus says that full time church workers are provided with
such benefits. He is in a position to know. I have not worked
full-time for the church in many years, though I know many people
who do.
: >: Why did David Ang die? In my opinion, it was not due to
: >: the careless driving of Won-seok Lee. When I was a Moonie,
: >: I drove excessively fast and had hundreds of near accidents
: >: prior to my falling asleep at the wheel and driving 80 m.p.h.
: >: into the back of a tractor-trailer truck. I drove like a model
: >: Moonie, fearless, excessive, having faith that I was doing
: >: God's will and believing that the spirit world would protect
: >: me. I was beyond "satanic" invasion because I was "totally
: >: united with Father." Common sense rules of driving safely
: >: did not pertain. I was functioning above "human" law because
: >: I was the law of God and of his son, the "Messiah" in the
: >: $1,000 business suit. The week of my accident, the insurance
: >: adjuster told me that the Unification Church was having three
: >: major automotive accidents a week.
: >
: >It sounds like you were a reckless and dangerous driver who should
: >lose his license and be taken off the road. Rev. Moon does not
: >advocate that people behave as you did.
: I did not drive. Steve Hassan did. Maybe you should read the text:
: The week of my accident, the insurance adjuster told me that
: the Unification Church was having three major automotive
: accidents a week.
How many accidents do members of the Catholic Church have per week?
Come on! The church does not have car accidents! People do. You
cannot blame the church for the bad driving of any of its members.
: >: What can one say about the tragedy of a young man who died
: >: because he was a Moonie? I pray that people will open up their
: >: eyes and realize that millions of wonderful people have been
: >: deceived and mind-controlled by those who seek to deprive members
: >: and others of their rights, who want to take over the world,
: >: who want to make us all willing slaves.
: >
: >He did not die because of his religion, but because of a car
: >accident. He was in a van with a bunch of other teenages, and
: >someone was not careful.
: He died because the cult didn't care about the life of their slaves.
: He died because the cult didn't care about security.
: He never had a chance.
Hogwash. You know NOTHING about it.
: And the story about "they were going to the movies" (Frank Kaufman came
: up with that idea) doesn't make sense. It rather sounds like an
: "acceptable truth" because telling "we were driving from/to fundraising"
: wouldn't look good in the media. Heavenly deception. And since when are
: cult groups going "to the movies" when the time could be used for
: fundraising ?
Frank Kaufman is more likely to know than you. He knows Dr. and
Mrs. Ang and has had frequent contact with them. He teaches at the
same place that Dr. Ang worked. You are so intent on finding
wrongdoing when you know nothing of the facts. Does this work in
Germany? You go into a court of law and someone who knows NOTHING
about an event comes along and makes up a story about how it was
and then expects to be believed, while people who know the parties
involved and have spoken to them are not listened to? Believe what
you want Tilman.
: >: People have asked me why I continue to fight the cult mind
: >: control battle fifteen years after my own escape to freedom.
: >: It is because of incidents like the recent van crash. It is
: >: because I receive phone call after phone call from tearful
: >: family members whose loved ones have been recruited into the
: >: Moon cult, or one of some three thousand other mind control
: >: groups. It is because, as a cult member, I personally experienced
: >: an evil so pernicious and insidious. I am still involved because
: >: I believe that people must stand up against these groups and
: >: expose them for what they really are. It is because I am a
: >: civil libertarian and believe that in order to have human rights,
: >: we must understand that we must first have freedom of mind.
: >
: >Well, it seems like you make a living off the misery of others.
: >That sounds like a parasite to me. The group is neither good nor
: >evil. You performed evil deeds in the name of a religion that did
: >not teach you to do that. How can you blame that on any religious
: >leader? If you lies, cheat and steal in the name of Jesus, does
: >that make Jesus responsible for you? I think not.
: He did it because Moon wanted him too. And the group does teach that.
: You know it does. You just don't tell it publicly.
Tell me where. Come on. Put your money where you lying mouth is,
or put a sock in it. Your fanatical hatred for this group of people
that you do not know is irrational in the extreme.
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 27, 1995
Subject: Re: Sources for high school senior essay on cults
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4aqmvs$bh9@sundog.tiac.net> <4astk3$fns@zippy.cais.net> <819803773.18991@rjprice.demon.co.uk> <4bo5vj$qdk@zippy.cais.net> <30dfcaeb.8388750@news.snafu.de>
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4bo5vj$qdk@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >Hassan is unreliable as a source on the Unification Church as he
: >was a member for a very short time and makes his living off writing
: >books to criticize and demonize the organization. He has an axe to grind.
: I'd say he's a reliable source exactly for that reason. He was very
: high. He was close to Moon. Probably closer than you'll ever get.
Would you expect a defrocked priest to be a good source on the
Catholic Church? Just because someone was a member of a church does
not mean to say that the person is a trustworthy person. Jesus said
that there would be many people who would say to him "Lord, Lord,
have I not done great deeds in your name?" and he would reply
"Begone from me, I never knew you!" And would you expect Judas
Iscariot to be a reliable witness on the Jesus sect? Would you not
suspect that his views may be a little colored by his desire for
his 30 pieces of silver? So it is with Steve Hassan.
: Besides, for you nobody is a "reliable source", except the members in
: good standing. Here is my post on that topic again.
: Often when cults are criticized, the motives of the critics are
: questioned. Let's review a few critics and the usual answer.
[snip]
In America, we have the constitutional guarantee of freedom of
government interference in religion. So, if someone wants to
criticize a church, go ahead, let them, we have freedom of speech.
But they may not hinder the free exercise of religion. The only
way you could possibly curtail the activities of a religious group
would be if they were breaking the law of the land, and then the
perpetrators of the crimes would be brought to justice, not the
religion as such. Individuals are held responsible for their actions,
not the group. These are basic freedoms of a just and ethical
society that I cherish, and I will fight to preserve. Do you have
these same rights in your country?
: Who would be qualified to criticize *any* existing cult, like TM,
: Unificationism, Scientology, ... ? No one ?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Are you guiltless
that you can pass judgement on another man? Hypocrite! Take the
beam out of your own eye before you try to take the splinter out
of your brother's eye!
: Considering the past: Who would have been qualified to criticize AUM,
: Jim Jones or the Solar Temple ?
: Really no one ?
If someone breaks the law, then they can be brought to justice,
but you cannot bring the law to bear on a person BEFORE a crime is
committed. To do that would destroy freedom for everyone and turn
the society into a totalitarian state. Is that what you want?
: We just have to let them do their business as long as they like to.
Exactly, as long as they are harming nobody.
: IMO, arguments (a) - (j) are simply of no value at all. When you have an
: argument that you don't agree with, you discuss the argument, not the
: messenger.
Hey, it was your argument! :-)
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Dec 29, 1995
Subject: Re: Driving Principle: Some things never change (The Divine Principle)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <30d861cf.4481440@news.snafu.de> <4bo5lv$qdk@zippy.cais.net> <30dfcaf7.8400668@news.snafu.de> <4bqpt0$9qf@zippy.cais.net> <30e11500.1748592@news.snafu.de> <4bt5us$6m4@malasada.lava.net> <30e26b67.3883966@news.snafu.de> <4bv200$4fh@malasada.lava.net>
Rich Rubasch (richster@lava.net) wrote:
: Does everyone who is reading this have a copy of Divine Principle yet?
: If you said "no" then you really must get one. Unlike the big bold
: "Dianetics" book, ours is considerably more humble, and more importantly
: it's free. Just email me!
For those who want the Divine Principle, it is on the Web at:
http://www.unification.net/dp73/
: richster@lava.net
: "My greatest interest is focused upon two major points:
: one, how can I liberate humanity from the bondage of
: evil forces; and two, how can I relieve the broken heart
: of God and help all people to understand God's sorrow?"
: Reverend Sun Myung Moon, from "The Way of Tradition"
Good quote, Richster!
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
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Dec 29, 1995
Subject: Re: Sources for high school senior essay on cults
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4aqmvs$bh9@sundog.tiac.net> <4astk3$fns@zippy.cais.net> <819803773.18991@rjprice.demon.co.uk> <4bo5vj$qdk@zippy.cais.net> <30dfcaeb.8388750@news.snafu.de> <4bqr4h$9qf@zippy.cais.net> <4bv8q0$g2n@sundog.tiac.net>
William H. Nute (pp002259@interramp.com) wrote:
: In article <4bqr4h$9qf@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com says...
: >Would you expect a defrocked priest to be a good source on the
: >Catholic Church? Just because someone was a member of a church does
: >not mean to say that the person is a trustworthy person. Jesus said
: >that there would be many people who would say to him "Lord, Lord,
: >have I not done great deeds in your name?" and he would reply
: >"Begone from me, I never knew you!" And would you expect Judas
: >Iscariot to be a reliable witness on the Jesus sect? Would you not
: >suspect that his views may be a little colored by his desire for
: >his 30 pieces of silver? So it is with Steve Hassan.
: >
: To your two questions above, Mr Anderson, I must take this time to
: reply "yes" and "yes" to both of them. First of all, in regards
: to the defrocked priest, it really depends what he is defrocked
: for. He may have been defrocked for sexual relations with another
: man's wife, and he may have known it was wrong to do so. He's a
: sinner. Does this not mean that we can't trust what he says about
: the subject?
I would not trust a defrocked priest who had had sexual relations
with another man's wife. I would be VERY careful with such a man.
I would be reluctant to trust his advice on much of anything
significant.
: I would think he would tend to know more about how difficult it is
: to keep this commandment. Furthermore, who is to say that he isn't
: a reliable source for, say, the Lord's other ten commandments???
Do you trust a thief who does not kill, or a murderer who does
not steal? If a person is guilty of a sufficiently heinous crime,
he ceases to be trustworthy.
: As for Judas, he still knew who Jesus was, despite the fact he had
: to turn him over for 30 pieces of silver. Although he turned Jesus
: over to the authorities, he was sorry for his actions. Turning
: Jesus over was something that Judas had to do.
NO! Judas did not have to betray Jesus! Jesus chose him as a trusted
disciple and when he betrayed him, Jesus said of him:
".. but alas for that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! Better
for that man if he had never been born!" (Matt 26:24)
: He's still considered one of Jesus's 12 Apostles.
No, he was considered a traitor, and Matthias was chosen in his
place. (Acts 1:15-26)
: Just because Judas sinned doesn't mean he is not a reliable source.
Well, if someone is a convicted child molester, I certainly will
not leave my kids in their care. The name Judas has become synonymous
with traitor in the English language.
: People have faults. That's what it is to be human.
No, the true nature of a human being is to be God's child, but
we are corrupted because of sin.
: Just because Hassan left the Unification Church doesn't mean that
: he gives faulty advice or information.
He may not give faulty advice on gardening or car repair, but I
would not trust his advice on the Unification Church.
: Although it is a nice thing to make us all aware of, you can't use
: one thing to totally judge another. If he is giving faulty
: information, I challege you to read his book and come up with a
: place where something he says doesn't hold water.
Listen, I don't have any interest in verifying all the garbage
coming from Steve Hassan. I have better things to do with my time.
I just know that the majority of what he says is bitter and
adversarial in tone, and his desire is to vilify the Unification
Church, whether it is right or wrong, so I cannot trust the man.
It is as simple as that.
: Show us proof.
No, if he makes an allegation, he has to provide evidence. The
innocent accused is under no obligation to defend himself against
his attacks. I am not going to be sidetracked to prove him false.
: Otherwise, don't slander the man because you are trying to protect
: your hide. Fight information with information, not information
: with insult.
Has he made any substantive attacks on me? My hide is not under
attack. He is attacking the good name of a man and an organization
for which I have the deepest respect. My remarks would only be
slander if they were both untrue and malicious, neither of which
is the case.
: >: Besides, for you nobody is a "reliable source", except the members in
: >: good standing. Here is my post on that topic again.
: >
: >: Often when cults are criticized, the motives of the critics are
: >: questioned. Let's review a few critics and the usual answer.
: >
: >[snip]
: >
: >In America, we have the constitutional guarantee of freedom of
: >government interference in religion.
: STOP RIGHT THERE! Not true. If you look at what Jefferson was
: intending . . . this is not what it was. I assume you have heard
: about the "wall of separation." Jefferson wrote a letter to a
: congregation of Baptists in Connecticut about this very phrase.
: Here is what he said:
: ". . . it [the Constitution] adopted the wall metaphor as a useful
: constitutional gloss, but that it also reaffirmed what it had long
: held, the distinction between belief and action." Jefferson was
: telling them they can BELIEVE what they want; they just can't DO
: what they want.
You are agreeing with me. I was defending the right to free exercise
of religion, not lawbreaking.
: Furthermore . . . the Chief Justice in the case of Lemon v.
: Kurtzman, in regards to this first amedment said . . .
: "The objective is to prevent, as far as possible, the intrusion of
: EITHER into the precincts of the other. Our prior holdings do not
: call for a total separation between church and state; total separation
: is not possible in an absolute sense. Some relationship between
: government and religious organizations in inevitable . . . " Sure.
: So your group does something illegal. We throw them in jail.
: GREAT! That doesn't change the fact that something illegal has
: been done. What about the people in Jonestown, or Waco? What
: about the many documented cases of abuse against children that have
: occurred within a cult? What about their rights?? Do they have
: the right to be abused before something can happen??
If someone has not committed a crime, what charges are you going
to file against them? We live under the rule of law. Think about
what you are saying.
: Don't they have a right to be protected before the abuse occurs??
Parents are responsible for their children, and are allowed to
belong to whatever religious group they choose. Now if that group,
or the parents abuse the children, then charges can be brought
against them. There are plenty of cases of actual abuse to prosecute
in our society. We do not prosecute POTENTIAL abuse, only ACTUAL
abuse.
: Although some people may get on my back about this, I believe they
: have rights. In fact, I believe they have more of a need for
: protection than those religions need!
Religions do not commit crimes, people do. You cannot prosecute
a religion, only a person accused of a crime.
: >If someone breaks the law, then they can be brought to justice,
: >but you cannot bring the law to bear on a person BEFORE a crime is
: >committed.
: I disagree. There are ways to prevent people from committing crimes
: while insuring freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
You cannot stop people committing crimes. The best you can do is
catch them in the act and prosecute them to deter others. If you
want to prevent crime, my suggestion is that we have a moral and
spiritual revival in this country, not the creation of a police
state. The state has too much power as it is.
: What good is doing anything if a crime has already been committed????
: When your rights infringe upon the rights of another, you are in
: the wrong. Afterwards is too late.
We have a presumption of innocence in our system of justice which
holds that poeple are considered innocent until proven guilty.
: Now, I don't mean to say strip the Constitution of the First
: Amendment or anything, but people have to consider what is going
: on. You don't have the freedom to commit illegal activities!
Well, actually, you do have the freedom to commit illegal activities,
but then, if you are caught and prosecuted, you lose your freedom.
All freedoms come with associated responsibilities. If you abuse
your freedom, you lose it.
: There are some ways of PREVENTION that can be done. (But, I don't
: think Mr. Anderson would even like to hear what they are because
: he will claim that the government might go too far. Well . . .
: what about Koresh? Jones? Manson? Ludgren? Gecht? , . .)
If there was evidence of illegal activity with Koresh, then there
should have been an investigation and a grand jury hearing to hear
the evidence. If there were sufficient to indict him, would he not
have been indicted?
: Name: William H. Nute
: E-mail: whnute@smtp.tiac.net (William H. Nute)
: Date: 12/09/95
: Time: 22:17:57
: ;-)Katherine Nute
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Dec 29, 1995
Subject: Steve Hassan's deceptive exit counselling
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
References: <30e014cd.13615797@news.snafu.de> <4bq325$hhh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <30e134ed.9913907@news.snafu.de>
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4bq325$hhh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, andybacus@aol.com (AndyBacus)
: wrote:
: >As for Steve's book, I have read it a few times. I like the part where he
: >encourages parents to lie to their children in order to gain their trust
: >(presumably so they can be deprogrammed when the time is right.)...
: You mean the "lie" that Steve Hassan is a "good friend of the family".
: Wow.
: What should they tell ? "Hi son, this guy there is Steve Hassan. You
: have been warned about him certainly. We are paying him $xxxx a day so
: do us a favor and snap out quick !"
Well, here we have a clear double standard. Tilman advocates that
members of the Unification Church introduce themselves as follows:
"Hi, my name is XXX. I am a member of the Unification Church and
I would like to introduce you to the teachings of our church." I
have no problem with that as long as that is the purpose of the
encounter. I would not say it at a job interview.
But let's apply the same standard to Steve Hassan. Then he would,
by this standard, be required to say: "Hello, my name is Steve
Hassan and I am here to convince you that the Unification Church
is evil and to encourage you to leave and I am being paid $1000
per day by your parents for the privilege."
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Dec 30, 1995
Subject: Re: Sources for high school senior essay on cults
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4aqmvs$bh9@sundog.tiac.net> <4astk3$fns@zippy.cais.net> <819803773.18991@rjprice.demon.co.uk> <4bo5vj$qdk@zippy.cais.net> <30dfcaeb.8388750@news.snafu.de> <4bqr4h$9qf@zippy.cais.net> <4bv8q0$g2n@sundog.tiac.net> <4c0bfc$fvq@zippy.cais.net> <30e4394a.23699753@news.snafu.de>
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4c0bfc$fvq@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >Listen, I don't have any interest in verifying all the garbage
: >coming from Steve Hassan. I have better things to do with my time.
: >I just know that the majority of what he says is bitter and
: >adversarial in tone, and his desire is to vilify the Unification
: >Church, whether it is right or wrong, so I cannot trust the man.
: >It is as simple as that.
: Basically, if Steve Hassan would tell you "Don't cross the road now !
: Lights are red !" then you would cross the road because Steve Hassan
: warned you.
Well, no, I have a mind of my own, and I can judge such things for myself.
: You are either afraid to find out that all is true, or you are
: participating in what you think "is right".
I am following what I think is right, that is, I am following the
dictates of my conscience.
: The usual example is the deceptive recruiting. The guys here first said
: it isn't done. When it was shown that it was done, suddenly the
: arguments changed, like "who says that you make the rules for us ?".
No, it goes more like this: I said that Rev. Moon said we should
be up-front in announcing our affiliation, and you showed an example
of someone who was less than forthright. I agree that it is better
to be forthright, but I do not have control over the behavior of
others, and although Rev. Moon has moral influence over the people
who belong to his church, he does not control them either, believe
it or not. It is purely the power of his teachings and his example
that cause so many people to listen to him and follow what he says,
but that does not mean that everyone does so.
And you cannot say that I have been less than forthright, because
I am clear about my affiliation. The only one whose behavior I have
any real control over is my own. So, if you are upset about the
behavior of others, perhaps you should be talking to the offenders
rather than to me.
And all this being said, you don't have the right to make the rules
for others. People will decide on the rules by which they want to
live their lives independently of you.
And please remember to apply the same standards to the anti-cult
people that you apply to us, okay?
Herzliche Grüße und Glückwünche für das Neues Jahr!
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Dec 30, 1995
Subject: Re: Steve Hassan's deceptive exit counselling
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
References: <30e014cd.13615797@news.snafu.de> <4bq325$hhh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <30e134ed.9913907@news.snafu.de> <4c192m$mo9@zippy.cais.net> <30e431c1.21808245@news.snafu.de>
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4c192m$mo9@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >Well, here we have a clear double standard. Tilman advocates that
: >members of the Unification Church introduce themselves as follows:
: >"Hi, my name is XXX. I am a member of the Unification Church and
: >I would like to introduce you to the teachings of our church." I
: >have no problem with that as long as that is the purpose of the
: >encounter. I would not say it at a job interview.
: >
: >But let's apply the same standard to Steve Hassan. Then he would,
: >by this standard, be required to say: "Hello, my name is Steve
: >Hassan and I am here to convince you that the Unification Church
: >is evil and to encourage you to leave and I am being paid $1000
: >per day by your parents for the privilege."
: I can imagine how Damian just jumped up and down for joy.
Actually, I was quite pleased. :-)
: Now does this mean that Moon franchise holders would agree to never
: deceive and defraud the public again if Steve Hassan would tell *your*
: chosen sentence to the UC victims ? Nooooo.
Well, like you, I cannot make commitments on behalf of others, only
on my own behalf. Now, I was not recommending this stilted speech,
but merely pointing out that this would be a consequence of the
standard that you want to apply to us.
: Besides, I don't know the percentage in which Steve uses the "friend of
: the family" method. As far as I know, there are also exit-counseling
: sessions which use an open approach, e.g. "we people like to discuss
: your membership in ."
Well, if you are opposed to deception as a matter of principle,
then you would decry all instances of it, even if it is not done
all the time.
: I speak only for myself.
Well, I speak for myself but also as a goodwill ambassador of God
and his chosen messenger, Rev. Sun Myung Moon. To speak ONLY for
oneself indicates a certain freedom from responsibility which I do
not have.
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
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