Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 18
Dec 20, 1995
Subject: Re: alt.support.ex-cult overrun by cultists
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4b4p0p$ku@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <4b5f5e$qeq@usenet.kornet.nm.kr> <4b71qq$qel@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Rick (an234911@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
: Moonie member Sekeo intrudes to prove Rick's point.
Well, maybe he figured you were talking about him. :-)
: Now SeKeo goes on the assault:
:
: >Developing an "us vs. them" mentality and seeking to control the flow of
: >infromation, are we?
: Not a bit. We are seeking to open *up* information and throw the deep,
: dark, dirty secrets of organizations such as yours out into the world
: for all to see. You can't stand that, so you come onto this newsgroup
: and spread your fucking hate, just as you do in the confines of your
: goddamned cult. Eat shit.
: >Aren't those supposed to be characteristics of "cults"?
: Yes, yours. Not here though. No way. Your brain is so fucking full
: of Moonatic propaganda that you can't see straight.
: >And here I thought you folks were trying to get AWAY from that
: >kind of stuff.
: And you bring it right back in here and throw it in our faces.
: You just demonstrated my point, you goddamned fucking cult perpetrator.
: Get the fuck out of here. Go perp your own butt. We're sick of you.
Ho, ho, ho, ho!!! :-) Merry Christmas!
So, Rick St. Clair of MIT who likes to wear the white sheet of
anon.penet.fi for anonymity has now shown his true colors. His post
is just full of puerile expletives because he has been found out! :-)
He and his ex-cult groupies think that it is just fine to
verbally harass and lie about the groups they rail against, the
"cults" (Ooo-ooo-oooh, the bogey man cults!) but then he goes into
conniptions of feeble vulgarity because he cannot get away with
it! Save us the hysteria and histrionics!
: ... You can't stand that, so you come onto this newsgroup
: and spread your fucking hate, just as you do in the confines of your
: goddamned cult. Eat shit.
Isn't it interesting how the guy who accuses us of hate speaks in
the rhetotic of violence and verbal abuse?
This discussion is posted on unmoderated newsgroups. If you want
to have the information control that Pravda had, just remember,
totalitarianism is dying worldwide. Maybe you would like Cuba, or
North Korea. The Internet brings with it free speech, even if you
don't like what people have to say. If you don't like the heat,
get out of the kitchen. I believe that Rev. Moon and the Unification
Church stand up well to the bright light of scrutiny. I don't
think that their detractors can say the same.
And the main thesis of the title, that this newsgroup is being
overrun by "cultists", is false. It looks to me like the anti-cult
crazies still have 90 per cent of the bandwidth in alt.support.ex-cult
and even in the other religion newsgroups like talk.religion.misc,
anti-God forces dominate. There is no law to stop anyone opposed
to your ideas challenging you. People do that to me more than 50
per cent of the time. Do you expect everyone to AGREE with you?
This may signify insecurity in your position. Maybe you could find
an audience with alt.mindcontrol and they will tell you how this
is all a plot of extra-terrestrials to plant computer chips in our
brains so that they can RULE THE WORLD!!!!!!
Rev. Moon seeks to transform the world through love and gentle
persuasion, not by force and not to plant mind-control computer
chips. Who can object to being won over by love?
: Rick
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 22, 1995
Subject: New Testament Writers
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References:
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Miriam Wolfe (mawolfe@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
: In article , rr@jews-for-jesus.org
: (Rich Robinson) wrote:
: > all of the writers of the New Testament are Jews
: this is a LIE.
: J4J is very big on posting LIES.
: It is a WELL KNOWN fact that
: many of the writers of the NT were goyim (Gentiles).
: You should check with your local NT scholar
: for more accurate information before you go posting
: nonsesnse.
Okay, Miriam, sister of Moshe, tell us which ones.
By the way, I must say that I admire your energy and devotion to
writing on alt.messianic and enjoy your posts, although the volume
is such that I don't read much of what you write.
: These types of DECIETFUL posts on the part of J4J
: is an embarassment to honest xians everywhere.
"I" before "E" except after "C" when the sound is "EE". Hence "deceitful".
Excuse me for the spelling correction, but I see this word misspelled
so often.
: I doubt that regularly contributing xians in this forum
: i.e. Bob Felts, John Nixon, Will Stewart,
: (and even Mr. Form), would agree with your lie
: stated above, because they KNOW better.
I am sorry, but I studied the New Testament in seminary and never
heard that any of the NT writers were goyim, and none comes to
mind as a candidate.
I also studied the Torah and prophets with a Rabbi and found that
most interesting.
: M Wolfe
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 22, 1995
Subject: Re: JEWS FOR JUDAISM
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References:
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Miriam Wolfe (mawolfe@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
: As assimilation and Jewish apathy continue to rise at an
: alarming rate, the Jewish community is confronted by
: the increasing efforts of Evangelical Christian missionaries.
: Each year, over four hundred different missionary groups
: spend in excess of $100 million towards
: converting Jews. They utilize new, sophisticated
: and deceptive techniques, such as making
: Christianity appear Jewish in order to attract converts.
: These missionary groups are active worldwide.
: It is estimated that in 1992 there were over 160,000
: Jews who considered themselves "Hebrew-Christians" -
: substantially more than the estimated 10,000
: "Hebrew-Christians" in 1980.
While I can understand that one does not want to lose members of
the faith, it would seem that people would follow the faith which
offered them the most. So, rather than being defensive about
Christianity, one could learn to appreciate the value in each faith
and to adopt the best of each. I have great respect for devout Jews
and Christians, and I would say that the most sincere and dedicated
religious people have a lot more in common with one another, whatever
their faith, than the secularized and perfunctory members of one's
own faith.
I find the sources of inspiration to my faith to be many-fold and
would not find it a threat that a religious leader of another creed
had something profound and moving to say that would shed light on
my path towards learning to emulate God's way of life.
May the oil in your lamps never burn out! Happy Chanukkah! Merry Christmas!
--
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 25, 1995
On Mon, 25 Dec 1995, Andreas Lerche wrote:
> Hi Damian
>
> I have some questions about the UC I hope you could give an answer to.
>
> Somewhere in the introduction to DP I read that Mr. Moon was called to
> fulfill what Jesus didn´t do. According to St. Matthew 2,19 and 28,19 are we
> all called to fulfill the work of God. It isn´t just one man(Mr. Moon) but
> every man and every woman who respond to the call from God.
You are right, that all people are called to do the work of God. As Jesus
said, "many are called, but few are chosen." This means, I believe, that
many are called by God, but few respond to that call in faith, and are
able to be chosen by God to fulfill important tasks in His providence.
> From my point of view it looks like Mr. Moon is in the center much more than
> God.(Is he?) When I wrote these words, this verse came to me. 2. King 17,16.
> Don´t ask me why but I can find some paralells.
The verse in 2 Ki 17:16 refers to people making idols and worshipping them
and rejecting God's commandments. I don't think that Rev. Moon is
abandoning God's commandments at all. Instead, I would say that he is a
champion for God in this age. As such, he is the central figure for God's
providence, but even the central figure must be humble before God. God is
at the center of everything that His champion does.
> Why is Korea so important in the Unification Church? I konw Mr. Moon was
> born there. Do you look at Korea as jews and christians look at Israel?
Korea is important because it has been prepared by God through centuries
of tradition, through the special character of the people. There is a
parallel between Korea and Israel. Both are religious peoples with a
tradition of prophecy, and well acquainted with suffering. And since we
Unificationists believe that Rev. Moon is the second coming of Christ,
then indeed, there is another parallel with Israel.
> I have read some of your writing and answers in alt.religion.unification;
> alt.religion.general. I wonder how you would introduce UC and DP to someone
> who didn´t know anything about Mr. Moon, UC and DP.
> What I need as a relative new reader(4 months on the net) is somekind of a
> guide. Untill now I have read something here and something there and I want
> to be much more systematic in my reading.
I would recommend the following:
Healing of the World
http://www.unification.net/misc/healing.html
Building a World of True Love
http://www.unification.net/misc/building.html
New Hope - Twelve Talks
http://www.unification.net/nhtt/
Divine Principle
http://www.unification.net/dp73/
Outline of the Principle
http://www.unification.net/dpl4/
> Is it to much to ask about how you got introduced? I like to know just a
> little bit about those people I have contact with.
I met a young woman selling magazines outside a Catholic Church in Paris
in August 1977. At the time, I was going to mass every day before work and
seeking for answers in my life of faith, but not finding them in
Catholicism. I started going to the Unification Church in Paris every
evening and studying the Divine Principle. In this way, I came to have a
dramatic opening of my spiritual awareness and understanding of God and
the world. I felt called by God and unable to turn down the request.
> I don´t know if the questions are so general to you, but to me they are.
Thanks for asking.
Merry Christmas.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 25, 1995
Subject: Re: Sur l'athéïsation accélérée de notre société
Newsgroups: soc.culture.french,alt.religion.unification,fr.soc.divers
Followup-To: soc.culture.french,alt.religion.unification,fr.soc.divers
References: <30dc4770.2698135@news.sct.fr>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Lionel Attuly (attuly@worldnet.fr) wrote:
: In article (Dans l'article) <30dc4770.2698135@news.sct.fr>,
: remi_san@worldnet.net (Jean Pierre) wrote (écrivait) :
: >La France a, sans doute plus que n'importe quelle nation européenne,
: >joué un rôle de pointe dans l'immense travail de déchristianisation
: >qui s'est poursuivi depuis le Moyen Age et qui a permis
: >l'intériorisation progressive de la conception chrétienne de l'homme.
: >Sans cet effort continu, l'Occident ne se serait jamais doté du
: >système institutionnel et juridique le plus respectueux de la personne
: >humaine qui ait existé dans l'histoire.
: Monsieur nous parle longuement (ennuyeusement ?) de la
: désaffection pour la foi ou les religions dans nos sociétés
: contemporaines.
: Il oublie simplement de nous informer que son point de vue sur le sujet
: est largement dominé par ses propres convictions car il est membre actif
: de la secte Moon.
: Cela s'appelle de la désinformation ou de la manipulation. Sûrement pas
: une contribution !
Vous ne nous informez pas de vos affiliations non plus. Alors,
pourquoi sont les paroles de Monsieur Jean-Pierre désinformations
et pas les vôtres?
Et moi, je suis membre de l'Eglise de l'Unification aussi.
: Lionel Attuly Paris, France attuly@worldnet.fr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 25, 1995
On Sun, 24 Dec 1995 A.L. wrote:
> On 23/12-95 Damian wrote:
> >
> > BLESSING AND IDEAL FAMILY
> > BY REVEREND SUN MYUNG MOON
> > CHAPTER 1
> > PART 3
> > TRUE MARRIAGE AND TRUE LOVE
> >
> >2. WHY WE MARRY
> >
> >For what reason do we marry? It is in order to fulfill the ideal of
> >creation, i.e., to realize the purpose of creation. Then, whose
> >purpose is this purpose of creation? Before it is the purpose of Adam,
> >it is the purpose of God. Therefore, before Adam feels happy, God has
> >to feel happy. It has to be like this. Then, in this respect, for whom
> >do we get married? It is for God, and for God's will, which is the
> >purpose of creation. God's will is to fulfill the ideal of creation.
>
> God is our father and as his children we don=B4t have to work for the sake=
> of
> our parent(s) or have I misunderstood something about parenthood. TELL ME
> ABOUT IT!!
What he is saying is that we marry to fulfill God's purpose for creating
us, not just for ourselves. Through our happiness, God is happy. The two
are in a reciprocal relationship.
> >Man is born to meet woman and woman is born to meet man. And man and
> >woman together are born to combine with a higher level of love which
> >is God's love. Neither man nor woman can touch God's love alone. If a
> >man or a woman alone tried to unite with God's love, it would just be
> >a one-sided love. Neither one would be able to combine with a three-
> >dimensional, spherical love.
> >
> >Therefore, man and woman must get married in order to jump into the
> >realm of a higher-level three-dimensional love. In the original world,
> >the more man and woman become united, the greater the center of the
> >activating power becomes, forming a sphere. Therefore, the more man
> >and woman connect horizontally, the more God, who is the maternal womb
> >of the vertical power of love, becomes connected. Then our mind and
> >body become united.
> >
> > **
> >
> >The reason for woman to meet man is to understand man's world. For
> >what reason do women try to take over the world of men? It is to
> >realize the unity of love.
> >
>
> Uhhh. How narrowminded. As I read, it says that woman is for the man. What
> about the man and the reason for him to meet a woman? Shouldn=B4t he
> understand woman=B4s world? Isn=B4t the marriage dualistic where people grow=
> in
> accordance to the other? I have a personal development by my actions but my
> actions also develop my partner and his/hers reaction make me develop even
> more etc.
It says just above that it goes both ways. Man is born for woman and
woman is born for man.
> >Why do we get married? How good would it be if you did not have to get
> >married if you did not want to? If women did not get married, they
> >would not be able to live fully as a woman and would even get sick.
> >Centering on all the circulating system, a woman's body is made to
> >meet man and to function normally through married life. Women must
> >know that it is not normal to stay unmarried. Therefore, the ideal
> >behavior for a woman is to go through a normal life-course.
> >
> Bla, bla, bla. Only a man could think like this. What about those women and
> men who stay single all their life? I believe that being single have a
> perpose. Is "the ideal familiy" able to take care of all stages in the
> so-called "normal life-course? I don=B4t think so.=20
It is well known today that many diseases of the woman's body are caused
by NOT having children, or delaying having them until late in life. In
addition, I believe that it applies to both men and women, that we miss
something very important by never marrying.
> >What is the normal way? The normal way means the middle way where the
> >average of all aspects can come together in unity. This middle the
> >normal way where everything will be in harmony. It will not have any
> >attachment or tilt toward one side or the other.
> >
> >Where would the road of destiny of an individual, a man or a woman,
> >lead? I am sure no one would want to go down a winding road of
> >destiny. The original psyche of man desires to go a straight way. Both
> >man and woman desire to choose a family life, which complies with
> >their destiny.
> >
> > **
> >
> >Single men and women of today think that after becoming successful,
> >they will form a good family and be good parents. Therefore, husbands,
> >wives, men and women all desire to have a good partner. Why is this
> >so? This is because they feel they are inadequate. Although they feel
> >inadequate, they desire to have excellent sons and daughters. Wouldn't
> >it be great if you could supplement your inadequacies and become
> >better through your reciprocal partner? With these thoughts deep in
> >mind, people desire to love someone.
> >
> > **
> >
> >I want to ask you, where is the Unification Church heading? To Moscow?
> >Then, what is the Unification Church to do by going there? It is easy.
> >We are to go there looking for the kingdom of heaven on earth. Then,
> >why are we to get married? We cannot go to heaven without getting
> >married. We must get married in order to qualify to enter heaven. What
> >is the qualification to enter heaven? It is to resemble God. Then, how
> >can we resemble God? We can resemble God by practicing God's words. We
> >must make God's love my love and God's words my words.
> >
> >Therefore, representing God, I would say to the world, "You mankind!
> >You should go to heaven!" And then I would say, "In order to go to
> >heaven, I should love mankind as God does and take the whole world
> >with me to heaven." Then you would be a person of God, a person on
> >heaven's side, and there would be no mistake in concluding that you
> >are qualified to go to heaven. Then you would be well qualified to get
> >married.
> >
> >Well? What was the reason for us to get married? In order to go to
> >heaven. Also, for the sake of humankind. Men should know that the
> >women standing before them are God's daughters and the daughters of
> >all humankind. Man is qualified to become a husband if he can love a
> >woman as a woman loved by all humankind and as God loves her as His
> >daughter. If he cannot, then he is not qualified to become a husband.
> >This is true for women, too. You should not think that man is my
> >husband. Before thinking of your husband as "my man," you should think
> >of him as God's son and as a man representing all men.
> >
> >You should become a woman who can love more than the whole of
> >humankind and even more than God. And you should get married thinking
> >that you will transmit the footprints of love for God and for
> >humankind through your family, by yourself becoming the right foot
> >representing man and the left foot representing woman. Because the
> >right leg is the husband and the left leg is the wife, you end up
> >being one-legged if you do not get married. Furthermore, the right and
> >the left legs are to become perfect. If either side cannot become
> >perfect, you are disabled. Therefore, you can have a harmonious
> >marriage only by man and woman both becoming perfect.
> >
> >Therefore, what I like about my husband is what I like about humankind
> >and about God. And loving my husband is my loving humankind and loving
> >God.
> >
> > **
> >
> >The purpose of marriage is to unify the world of heart and to perfect
> >the love of man and woman. Therefore, to say that you have married is
> >to proclaim that you will prove this. If you have realized the
> >perfection of love and the perfection of heart through married life,
> >then we can say that you have realized the ideal of a family. If you
> >have realized this, then at the time of death, without a doubt you
> >will be able to go to heaven.
>
> You don=B4t become a pie by eating a pie; You don=B4t become a christian by
> going to church so what the .... do you mean by this? Try to convince me.
> I=B4m looking forward to see what you have to say.
I'm sorry, I don't follow you. What the above is saying is that you
cannot enter the heaven of love without having experienced all the realms
of love in the family, love of children for parents, love of siblings,
love of husband and wife and the love of parents for children, and of
course the extension to all the various relationships between extended
family members. Since the world is to be one large family, if you can
love every kind of person, you can enter heaven.
> Merry Christmas and a happy new year.
And the same to you.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 25, 1995
Subject: Re: New Testament Writers
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <4bdkbg$pr6@zippy.cais.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Bob Felts (wrf3@mindspring.com) wrote:
: In article <4bdkbg$pr6@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: [... discussing the question of whether or not the authors of the
: NT were Jews or Gentiles. Someone posted that they were all
: Jews, and Miriam (properly) jumped all over him ...]
: | [Miriam]:
: | : I doubt that regularly contributing xians in this forum
: | : i.e. Bob Felts, John Nixon, Will Stewart,
: | : (and even Mr. Form), would agree with your lie
: | : stated above, because they KNOW better.
: |
: | I am sorry, but I studied the New Testament in seminary and never
: | heard that any of the NT writers were goyim, and none comes to
: | mind as a candidate.
: What seminary did you go to?
: Luke was a gentile.
I went to the Unification Theological Seminary, graduating 11 years
ago. I did not ever become a minister in the Unification Church,
so did not use a lot of the material that I learned. You use it or
lose it I suppose.
: __|_______
: | Bob Felts
: | wrf3@mindspring.com
: |
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 25, 1995
Subject: Re: Moon buys Sen Grassley, Helms and Lugar
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <30d85ed7.3722047@news.snafu.de>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: [posted to alt.religion.unification, with cc to Tom - no reply needed]
: From AFF - The Cult Observer Sept/Oct 1990
: Financial disclosure statements examined recently by the
: Washington Post indicate that Senators Charles Grassley of
: Iowa and Jesse Helms of North Carolina each received $2,000
: speaker's fees in 1989 for speaking at meetings of the American
: Leadership Conferences, programs which represent the agendas
: of CAUSA, a political arm of the Unification Church. Cult Awareness
: Network News, 9/90, 2. Senator Richard Lugar (R-Ind.) received
: a $2,000 honorarium in 1989 from CAUSA Washington Post, 9/10/90,
: A13.
Senators speak all over the place for all kinds of groups and are
paid an honorarium. Does that mean that they have been "bought" by
every group to whom they speak?
: --- Tilman Hausherr [KoX; awards: DB, SP decl. by Koos]
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 25, 1995
Subject: Re: UTexts: God's Purpose for Creating Adam and Eve
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References:
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Charles Coen (coen@netcom.com) wrote:
: Damian J. Anderson (damian@cais.cais.com) wrote:
: : **
: : For God, Eve was His future wife, because Adam was meant to become God
: : Himself by becoming united with Him. Satan seduced God's wife Satan is
: : God's enemy and our enemy.
: Reading drivel like this makes me appreciate Rabbinic Judaism just that
: much more and the truth which Jews bring to men.
You don't win brownie points by ridiculing others' beliefs as
drivel. It is the belief of Christians that Jesus was the word made
flesh. It is the belief of Unificationists that God's intent is
for every man and woman to become the word made flesh. So, if God
is incarnate in Adam, then Eve is the bride of God. It may not be
palatable to you, but it is not such an unreasonable belief.
: When reading these postings I am reminded of the script for the old movie
: "Manchurian Candidate". They are nothing more than attempts to brainwash
: an unsuspecting readership. There is not one shred of truth in them nor
: even the slightest connection to reality.
You win no respect from me from such words. If there is no shred
of truth in them, just ignore them as fantasy. For those who have
ears to hear, they will hear.
: Chuck Coen
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 26, 1995
Subject: Re: Driving Principle: Some things never change (by Steve Hassan)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification
References: <30d861cf.4481440@news.snafu.de>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: From AFF - The Cult Observer July 1991
: Moonies: "Things Never Change", by Steve Hassan
: Mr. Hassan, once a member of the Unification Church, has been
: an exit counselor for almost fifteen years. He is the author
: of Combatting Cult Mind Control and has spoken and lectured
: widely on various aspects of the cult phenomenon.
: The fatal Moonie van crash that killed 21-year-old David Ang
: and injured 22 others on January 5, 1992, made me remember my
: own near-fatal crash on April 23, 1976. It saddens me to realize
: that excessive speed, and probably exhaustion from lack of sleep,
: were to blame in both cases. When I crashed, I was a Moonie
: fundraising captain instructed to raise money on the streets
: of Baltimore. Fortunately, I was driving alone. In the recent
: accident, more than a score of persons was packed into a van
: that could safely hold only fifteen.
Do you know the circumstances of the David Ang crash or are you
just making them up? As a whole, the life style of single members
living together in church centers, fundraising and witnessing is
a thing of the past for the majority of Unification Church members
in America. They tend to be married, working and raising families,
like the rest of the society.
David Ang was not a convert to Unificationism but was born into
the faith. I know both of his parents. His father worked at the
Unification Theological Seminary for many years.
: Some things never change! Despite the jet-set life style
: of Moon, and the billion dollars in business investment and
: international politicking, the members are still treated like
: coolie labor. As far as I know, members still do not have health
: insurance and have no financial security for their futures.
: They remain psychological and financial slaves to a demagogue
: who purports to have love ten times greater than Jesus, or
: a saint.
Well, you are wrong here. A very small percentage of church members
work full time for the church any more. What do you know about
current living conditions of missionary members of the Unification
Church? When were you last in touch with one such member?
: Why did David Ang die? In my opinion, it was not due to
: the careless driving of Won-seok Lee. When I was a Moonie,
: I drove excessively fast and had hundreds of near accidents
: prior to my falling asleep at the wheel and driving 80 m.p.h.
: into the back of a tractor-trailer truck. I drove like a model
: Moonie, fearless, excessive, having faith that I was doing
: God's will and believing that the spirit world would protect
: me. I was beyond "satanic" invasion because I was "totally
: united with Father." Common sense rules of driving safely
: did not pertain. I was functioning above "human" law because
: I was the law of God and of his son, the "Messiah" in the
: $1,000 business suit. The week of my accident, the insurance
: adjuster told me that the Unification Church was having three
: major automotive accidents a week.
It sounds like you were a reckless and dangerous driver who should
lose his license and be taken off the road. Rev. Moon does not
advocate that people behave as you did.
: What can one say about the tragedy of a young man who died
: because he was a Moonie? I pray that people will open up their
: eyes and realize that millions of wonderful people have been
: deceived and mind-controlled by those who seek to deprive members
: and others of their rights, who want to take over the world,
: who want to make us all willing slaves.
He did not die because of his religion, but because of a car
accident. He was in a van with a bunch of other teenages, and
someone was not careful.
: People have asked me why I continue to fight the cult mind
: control battle fifteen years after my own escape to freedom.
: It is because of incidents like the recent van crash. It is
: because I receive phone call after phone call from tearful
: family members whose loved ones have been recruited into the
: Moon cult, or one of some three thousand other mind control
: groups. It is because, as a cult member, I personally experienced
: an evil so pernicious and insidious. I am still involved because
: I believe that people must stand up against these groups and
: expose them for what they really are. It is because I am a
: civil libertarian and believe that in order to have human rights,
: we must understand that we must first have freedom of mind.
Well, it seems like you make a living off the misery of others.
That sounds like a parasite to me. The group is neither good nor
evil. You performed evil deeds in the name of a religion that did
not teach you to do that. How can you blame that on any religious
leader? If you lies, cheat and steal in the name of Jesus, does
that make Jesus responsible for you? I think not.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 26, 1995
Subject: Re: Sources for high school senior essay on cults
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
Followup-To: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <4aqmvs$bh9@sundog.tiac.net> <4astk3$fns@zippy.cais.net> <819803773.18991@rjprice.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Richard Price (richard@rjprice.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Why don't you read Steven Hassans book called Combatting Cult Mind
: Control. Have a read if you are allowed to. It will help you to
: realise that a lot of groups which call themselves religions are in
: fact groups that use covert hypnosis and abusive psychological
: techniques to ensure that people become dependant upon them.
: In fact if you read his home page there is an expose of the
: Unification church. It states that there is a connection between the
: Moonies and the Korean Intelligence Agency. But far worse facts then
: that come to light.
The only connection between the Unification Church and the Korean
CIA is that they both originate in the same country. The rest is
fantasy made up by the enemies of the church.
Hassan is unreliable as a source on the Unification Church as he
was a member for a very short time and makes his living off writing
books to criticize and demonize the organization. He has an axe to grind.
: Regards and good luck
: Rich
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 26, 1995
Subject: Re: UTexts: Adam and Eve's Growing Period
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <4adcvf$4mk@spectator.cris.com> <4ahgb5$t7q@zippy.cais.net> <4alcbr$26q@spectator.cris.com> <4ap5o8$34j@zippy.cais.net> <4b5ojv$rhd@linet02.li.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Merchant of Chaos (peegee@newshost.li.net) wrote:
: Damian J. Anderson (damian@cais2.cais.com) wrote:
: : Surely God created them. The Bible does not describe in detail
: : HOW God did it, that is the realm of science. It just says that
: : He did it. From observing all things that come into being and the
: : way God works, all things take time to grow to maturity and I have
: : no doubt that Adam and Eve would take time to grow to maturity.
: What are you kidding? You are relying on "the realm of science" to
: explain the Biblical version of Creation? If you look to "the realm of
: science" you will see that mankind did not begin with two people in a
: garden that was created in seven days, it began with thousands, even
: millions of various organisms evolving over a period of millions of years.
: If you believe in "the realm of science" Damian, then your whole Moonie
: belief system can be easily shown to be invalid.
I believe in science and I am aware that it also has its limitations.
Science certainly cannot PROVE that organisms evolved one from the
other. It is an unproven theory, given much credence, but not
proved. There is evidence which I have read about that all humanity
came from one woman. Why not then also one man? The theory of
evolution has serious problems dealing with the fossil record and
cannot explain how a species can better itself simply by chance.
It is pure fantasy to suppose that the highly complex structures
which exist in living organisms came about by chance! Talk about
a leap of faith!
And I never said that I believed that the whole world was created
in 7 days, or that I believe that the creation story is literal.
Still, I believe that God created the world, not chance. And it is
quite reasonable to suppose that the Biblical concept of days were
in fact long periods of time. The Biblical story is an ancient
explanation of the origins of the world, and in as much as it says
that God created the world, and found it to be good, it is true.
What I was saying before is that the HOW of creation is the domain
of science, and the WHY is the domain of religion. I am a creator.
I create software. I cannot imagine any piece of software coming
about by chance. There is not one living organism which is as simple
as a $50 software package. So, how could such an organism come
about? My answer is that it takes intelligence and desire to create,
not chance. DNA is a complex form of encoding of biological
information akin to software. Such information does not arise by
accident.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian
See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail,
Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Dec 27, 1995
From damian@cais.cais.comWed Dec 27 01:31:29 1995
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 01:43:07 -0500
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: Unification Texts
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian, alt.messianic
Subject: Similar views to Unificationism on The Fall
G.L. wrote on Sun, 17 Dec 1995:
>One could simply say that the individual is socialized
>within the family unit and that, when the family unit goes
>awry, the individual is also likely to do so. There is no
>need to postulate an original sin. We believe in original
>sin because Father says that he met with Lucifer, Adam, and
>Eve personally and discussed it with them.
>
>There is no hard evidence for original sin, although I do
>think that it is a convenient notion for addressing some
>theodicy issues (e.g. Why doesn't God reveal himself?).
Dear G.L.
I agree with you that there is no hard evidence for the
original sin, and in fact this is and will be one of the
topics of the biggest controversy in the modern theological
world. But I disagree with you that "we believe in original
sin (only) because Father says that he met with Lucifer,
Adam, and Eve personally and discussed it with them".
Many Christians, Jews, Moslems and others have a view that
something happened at the dawn of human history, recognizing
that mankind lost its original direction and at a certain
point became corrupted and evil. In the numerous and various
explanations on the origin of evil and sin, throughout the
history of Judeo-Christianity theology, the interpretation
of the fall of the angels and the fall of Adam and Eve in
sexual terms, is not completely new or exclusively ours,
as you probably know.
We find this line of interpretation in the writings of some
Jewish rabbis, mostly in the inter testamental period, as
well as in those of some early Church fathers and
ecclesiastical writers of the first centuries.
The following are several examples that I came across when I
did some research for the book "True Love & Forbidden Love"
Clement of Alexandria in the second century wrote: "... the
first man of our race did not await the appropriate time,
desiring the favour of marriage before the proper hour and he
fell into sin by not waiting the time of God's will...they
(Adam and Eve) were impelled to do it before the normal time
because they were still young and were persuaded by
deception." (On Marriage XIV:94, XVII:102-103).
Theophilus of Antioch and St. Irenaeus also considered Adam
to be in a premature age when he violated the precept of
abstaining from a sexual union with Eve, his future wife.
This was not because it was a wrong action, but because it
was inappropriate for their age.
This notion that the fall occurred in a period of immaturity
before they achieved perfection is also shared by Peter
Lombard, Hugo of St. Victor, Alexander of Hales, St.
Bonaventura, John Duns Scotus and others in the Franciscan
school.
Influenced by some apocryphal books of that period and
especially the Book of Enoch, the notion of a carnal
relationship between angels and women in the beginning of
history was commonly accepted, particularly, in order to
interpret verses 6:1-4 of Genesis. Tertullian (160-200)
called these fallen angels "Desertores Dei, Amatores
Feminarum" - Deserters of God and lovers of women.
Similar interpretations were maintained by St. Irenaeus,
Athenagoras, St. Athanasius, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, St.
Justin and others. However, those ambiguous and incomplete
analyses could not offer an effective solution to the serious
problem of the original sin.
The "Ambrosiaster", a writing of the fourth century
attributed for a long time to St. Ambrosius, but now
considered to be an anonymous writing, is a little more
specific on this topic:
"...Eve, the first woman, upon being corrupted, lost her
virginity against the will of God and everything that was
engendered by her appeared to be corrupted, starting with
Cain, born of the first disobedience."
"...the devil used Eve to entangle Adam, making him an
instrument in order to usurp the supreme sovereignty, which
belongs only to God."
"...Adam the first and only man created and promoted by God
to universal royalty, with the investiture of the divine
image and likeness, accepted the devil's proposal to become
like God, deflowering the virginity of his wife Eve, to whom
the Lord God had promised the chaste conjugal love of a
sacred marriage" (The Original Sin. Eleuterio Elorduy.
B.A.C. 1977, pp. 202, 208, 221)
The "Ambrosiaster" had a great influence on St. Augustine in
his interpretation of the original sin. St. Augustine,
although he emphasized that the fall was primarily due to the
sin of pride and disobedience, deserves our recognition for
uncovering also the involvement of the sexual component, as
well as his understanding that concupiscence is still the
root of the present sinful state of man.
There is the interesting case of Mother Ann Lee Stanley, who
officially founded the celibate Shakers. While being
imprisoned in 1770 in Manchester, England, she had a vision
of Jesus Christ in which he graphically showed her that, in
respect to the original sin, the sexual act was the true act
of transgression committed by the first man and woman in the
Garden of Eden. After this surprising experience, she and her
followers settled down in celibate communities in which they
lived together as brothers and sisters.
>From ancient Jewish sources:
Rabbi Leo Jung, who made a careful study of the Jewish,
Christian and Islamic literature on the fall, maintains that
all the stories that speak of the adultery of the "serpent"
with Eve have some foundation in the Jewish tradition. (L.
Jung, Fallen Angels in Jewish, Christian and Mohammedan
Literature. 1974, pp 69-78)
We find in the Talmud in Abot de Rabbi Nathan from the second
century: "At that time the wicked Serpent considered in his
heart and said - since I am unable to cause Adam to fall, I
shall go and cause Eve to fall - He went, sat beside her and
talked much with her... What did the wicked serpent plan at
that moment? He thought, I shall go and slay Adam and marry
his wife, and I shall be king over all the world and shall go
about proudly and shall enjoy royal pleasures."
Similarly, professor F. R. Tennant of Cambridge University,
who made an extensive study of the fall, comments: "It is
beyond question...that various stories concerning the
monstrous sexual intercourse of Adam and Eve with demons, and
especially Eve with the serpent or Satan, were both
widespread and ancient among the Jews. (F.R. Tennant, The
Sources of the Doctrines of the Fall and Original Sin,
Schocken, NY 1968, pp 156)
What is so remarkable about these new revelations, presented
now by Rev. Sun Myung Moon, that corroborate the same views
mentioned in the past, is the fact that they don't appear as
a mere biblical interpretation or as a study of similar
theological interpretations, but rather Rev. Moon proclaims
with absolute conviction and great authority that these are
new divine revelations, received as the result of a direct
and intense search in the reality of the Spirit World.
Secondly, these revelations, illuminate and deepen with
precise detail, for the first time, the motivation, process,
consequences and solution to this first crime or original sin
which affected us so deeply and continues to affect us,
tragically drawing man and woman in the direction of illicit
love. Unfortunately, we have to recognize that deep in man's
heart exists a powerful inclination or tendency to seek an
illicit or forbidden love.
Best regards. ITL
Jesus G.
___________________________________________
Jesus Gonzalez Losada
Flat 504, 21-23 Macdonnell Road, Hong Kong
Tel: 852 2526 3842, Fax: 852 2526 3856
___________________________________________