Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 17
Dec 4, 1995
Subject: Re: La Foi
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
References: <30c1b184.1134091@news.sct.fr>
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JPO (Jean-Philippe.Odent@paris.ensam.fr) wrote:
: Ce texte est composé d'extraits d'une conférence publique de Mr Sudo,
: directeur de l'éducation au Séminaire de l'Eglise de l'Unification à
: Barrytown (USA). Il s'exprime dans un langage simple et direct. J'ai
: voulu rester le plus proche possible du langage parlé, aussi ce texte
: n'est-il pas un modèle de style. Mais le lecteur y reconnaitra sans
: doute le langage du coeur.
[coupe]
Chère Marie Christine, et Jean-Philippe,
J'ai ajouté cet article au groupe de nouvelles fr.religion.misc que
j'ai crée maintenant. S'il te plaît, ajoute-le aux articles suivantes.
Merci.
: Marie-Christine ODENT
: http://www.unification.net/french
: http://www.ettl.co.at/uc-french
: Discussions: alt.religion.unification
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 5, 1995
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Jin Hee Kim wrote:
> How about how the Unification Church deals with suffering...in how does
> it reconcile suffering in a positive way with the existence of
> God...where is the salvation? In the afterlife? In an ideal world?
> What is the ideal world like? No suffering?
I am sorry, but you have to do your own research. The Fall of Man is far
more than merely the story of what happened. The Divine Principle is a
source of incredible wisdom, but you must approach it with humility and
prayer. It is not simply a work of philosophy. It also talks about why God
could not stop the Fall, and the origin of the Satanic nature in man. As a
result of the Fall, man came to resemble Satan more than God. So, what do
you expect from a race of Satan's offspring? To become like God requires a
radical change in human nature, and Father has exemplified that, and the
works of God throughout the ages have made that nature change gradually.
You can see the evolution of the human spirit over the centuries. What was
accepted even 100 years or even 50 years ago is not accepted today, such
as slavery, or race segregation. But today, we have other rampant moral
problems. The Abel-type group constantly gets better, but there are still
very evil people in the world today who commit genocide, mass rape and
torture, and then all the sexual perversions.
> I know how it all started, with the Fall and all but how does our church
> account for suffering like the Holocaust and stuff like that...horrendous
> suffering.
> And, what about free will? Is our definition of free will simply
> different from conventional ideas? I understand that we define free will
> in terms of the original mind. But does that mean that what we think is
> "free" now, is not free at all? And if so, what does that say about
> determinism and the idea that all things are causally affected by other
> things?
The Principle talks about free will (mind) and free action (body).
Without mind and body unity centered on God, there is no true freedom.
Look on my Home Page for a statement on the Holocaust. Man is not "free"
while he is enslaved in sin. We can only be truly free when we are
liberated from sin. We are spiritual beings and able to choose our
actions, but we live in an environment heavily dominated by evil, so to
do good is heavily discouraged and opposed by the evil world, but not
impossible, just difficult. Sometimes, one must give up one's life rather
than go against an evil order, as in the case of the Nazis.
> I'm planning on explaining our interpretation of the fall and stuff, but
> my teacher pointed out that the suffering felt by the Jews during the
> Holocaust where life essentially became meaningless, seems like an
> overdose of punishment for the "simple" act of fornication. Perhaps that
> is because of the present view of sex as rather mundane (?), but if so,
> how can I stress the importance of the fall. Is it because of
> lineage only or are there other reasons?
Look at Father's attitude in Hung Nam and decide whether *his* life was
meaningless. It has the meaning you ascribe to it. The act of fornication
alienated men from God, and then the sin was compounded by murder in the
next generation. So, evil took root in the world. Evil is not a
punishment, but a consequence of our own behavior and that of our
ancestors. The key is human responsibility. That is the heart of
Unification theology and theodicy.
> I'm sure I have more questions, and I'm sorry to be a bother, but thank
> you very much for your time and consideration.
I will attempt to give you a more detailed answer in time, but this
should give you some pointers.
> itpn love jin
ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 5, 1995
Subject: Re: On using DSM-IV to support bogus theoriesc
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <48ial2$87f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <49gk8d$arl@madeline.INS.CWRU.Edu> <49ko6a$jt8@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> <49qbfj$ejc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <49vrq0$ppm@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
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Rick (an234911@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
: referen@ibm.net (Diane Richardson) wrote:
: >If no one is permitted to investigate and expose the activities
: >of such people, Cory, how do you propose that people like Jeffrey
: >Lundgren be halted before they kill again? Or don't you think
: >that such people *should* be stopped? Where do you draw the
: >line, Cory?
: Good questions, Diane. As I said elsewhere on this thread,
: we entrust our property to the control of governments but our
: souls to the control of religious leaders. (Well, I don't do the
: latter, but anyway...) How much *more* important it is to know
: the character of those religious leaders. If we had the equivalent
: of Watergate and Whitewater investigations of Hubbard and Koresh
: and Moon etc., I wonder what skeletons would turn up in *their*
: closets! :)
Ha ha! Hubbard and Koresh are both dead. Rev. Moon was investigated
at the cost of millions of dollars to the US taxpayer, and all
they could come up with was a trumped up tax charge. Now Whitewater,
there is a REAL scandal. Maybe our friend Bill will go to jail
yet.
: Rick S.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 7, 1995
Subject: Re: CAN Reform Group
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.support.ex-cult
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.support.ex-cult
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Ron Newman (rnewman@kalypso.cybercom.net) wrote:
: In article ,
: Damian J. Anderson wrote:
: > WHAT IS THE CAN REFORM GROUP?
: >
: > * The CAN Reform Group is composed of members of the Cult Awareness
: > Network who decry the unconstitutional activities which have been
: > employed by CAN to repeatedly violate the civil rights of members
: > of minority religious groups.
: The "CAN Reform Group" is a group of Scientologists who try to
: disrupt and interfere with the legitimate work of the
: Cult Awareness Network. Promoting this phony organization only
: discredits Damian and the organization he represents, the
: Unification Church (Moonies).
I don't see the CAN Reform Group as a phony organization. It would
appear that they are individuals who won the right to become members
of CAN by fighting for it in court and then exposed the dirty truth
about CAN to the world. Since CAN's main purpose in life appears
to be the destruction of legitimate new religious movements, then
they are in a glass house throwing stones and can expect to have
a few panes broken.
Since CAN has in the past promoted and sponsored illegal kidnapping,
violence and intimidation, then they have a lot in common with
organized crime groups. The eventual demise of CAN through the
attrition of its resources through lawsuits from its victims appears
to me to be poetic justice. It is about time this hate group saw
its come-uppance.
: For a look at what CAN really does, try
: http://www.xnet.com/~can/can.html
No, for a look at what CAN really does, se the CAN Reform Group
Home Page:
http://www.lronhubbard.org/can_reform/index.html
I think that as long as CAN is engaged in illegal and unethical
activities such as those described above, then looking for what
good they do is like asking what good the KKK, Aryan Nation or
the Nazi party does. They certainly belong in that crowd rather
than with bona-fide religious or charitable groups.
: Ron Newman rnewman@cybercom.net
: Web: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/home.html
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 11, 1995
Subject: Re: Divine Principle - General Introduction
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <49tlb7$1gk@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
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Charles Coen (coen@netcom.com) wrote:
: : Hey Chuck we agree on something
: In my heart, I could wish for more.
: At any rate, it is clear to me that moshiach will be Jewish and not
: Korean. Hence, my remarks.
: Chuck Coen
Jesus said that the Jewish people had lost the position of God's
elect because they had failed to recognize him and follow him.
He said this in the parable of the wicked husbandmen. So, the Moshiach
will not be Jewish, but from a nation which can inherit the faith
of Abraham, rather than just his blood.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 11, 1995
Subject: Re: UTexts: Adam and Eve's Growing Period
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Rafae'l (BibleMan@mail.concentric.net) wrote:
: "Damian J. Anderson" wrote:
: >Adam and Eve were created with the possibility of becoming perfect
: >without any sin.
: This is not biblical. What makes you think that they were not perfect ?
Because they sinned. Jesus was not born perfect but grew to perfection.
See Hebrews 5:7-10.
: >The reason God told Adam and Eve "not to eat" was because the time for
: >them to love each other as husband and wife had not yet been reached.
: >Because Adam and Eve were still in the growing period, God gave them a
: >commandment to wait until they matured.
: This is also not biblical. Cain was conceived in the garden, and G-d
: specifically commands Adam and Eve to bee fruitful while in the garden.
: Yes, there is a Christian reasoning that sex was the great sin of theirs,
: but not only is it non-biblical, but it is also counter to the bible.
Cain was conceived after the fall of Adam and Eve.
: >When a person is born through a parent, he or she is not born ready
: >made as a husband or a wife.
: That is because unlike us, Adam and Eve were created as adults.
I doubt that. God creates all things in their immaturity and they
grow to maturity.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 14, 1995
Subject: Re: UTexts: Adam and Eve's Growing Period
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Rafae'l (BibleMan@mail.concentric.net) wrote:
: damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) wrote:
: >Rafae'l (BibleMan@mail.concentric.net) wrote:
: >: "Damian J. Anderson" wrote:
: >: >Adam and Eve were created with the possibility of becoming perfect
: >: >without any sin.
: >: This is not biblical. What makes you think that they were not perfect ?
: >Because they sinned. Jesus was not born perfect but grew to perfection.
: >See Hebrews 5:7-10.
: Then the passage that Jesus was the only righteous man [Christian
: definition] is an error and a contradiction in the Christian writings.
: Which way is it ?
Jesus was not the only righteous man. There are many men and women
in the Bible who are called righteous: Noah, Abraham, Tamar, Job,
Esther, and many others. Hebrews 11 gives a litany of the faith
of the many righteous people in Jewish history. When Jesus was
called "Good master", he told the man, "Don't call me good. Only
God is good."
: >:>The reason God told Adam and Eve "not to eat" was because the time for
: >: >them to love each other as husband and wife had not yet been reached.
: >:>Because Adam and Eve were still in the growing period, God gave them a
: >: >commandment to wait until they matured.
: >
: >: This is also not biblical. Cain was conceived in the garden, and G-d
: >: specifically commands Adam and Eve to bee fruitful while in the garden.
: >: Yes, there is a Christian reasoning that sex was the great sin of theirs,
: >: but not only is it non-biblical, but it is also counter to the bible.
: >Cain was conceived after the fall of Adam and Eve.
: Please support this with a chapter and verse, or admit that it is merely
: your interpretation.
After the account of the Fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 3,
there is the account of Cain and Abel:
"The man had intercourse with his wife Eve and she conceived and
gave birth to Cain." Gen 4:1. This was AFTER they left Eden.
: >: That is because unlike us, Adam and Eve were created as adults.
: >I doubt that. God creates all things in their immaturity and they
: >grow to maturity.
: But the bible states otherwise. In the 1st chapter of Genesis it states
: that G-d created the items. For example, it does not state that G-d
: created the seeds and the plants grew from them. Rather the bible states
: that G-d created the plants and these plants gave off their seeds which
: grew to be plants just like the original ones.
Surely God created them. The Bible does not describe in detail
HOW God did it, that is the realm of science. It just says that
He did it. From observing all things that come into being and the
way God works, all things take time to grow to maturity and I have
no doubt that Adam and Eve would take time to grow to maturity.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 14, 1995
Subject: Re: Lifespring...Is it okay?
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc
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Pax33 (pax33@aol.com) wrote:
: Worried about your friend in Lifespring?? Well, you should be.
: Lifespring is a dangerous cult in the mode of EST and other so-called
: "motivational" movements. Lifespring, at it's core, is no different from
: the Moonie's, Hare Krishna's, etc. The Cult Awareness Network maintains a
: thick package on them, as do other antin cult groups.
Lifespring is VERY different from the Unification Church. While
they do have seminars and a strong evangelical bent, they do not
teach about God (except in their intimacy workshop) and are pro-gay.
It is not a religion at all, but rather, belongs to the human potential
movement. Their focus is on personal growth and achievement of
goals. However, they do not teach morality or religious concepts.
I would recommend getting involved with the Unification Church
over Lifespring any day! :-)
But calling it a dangerous cult? Nah. That is just the hype that
you hear from the anti-cult hustlers who are looking to make a
buck out of anti-cult books, or their more illegal and nefarious
practices, such as kidnapping, then beating the tar and out the
unfortunate seeker, and setting them straight with their own peculiar
and twisted view of the world that anyone who does not think as
they do is a member of a dangerous cult. They charge dearly for
such "services". You never know, they may have to watch out or
the Mafia may want to cut in on their business. It sounds positively
Orwellian to me.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 14, 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Cosmic Justice
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam
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Irfan Omar (omar@astro.ocis.temple.edu) wrote:
: very nice line up from the collection "World Scriptures". But you did not
: put any thing from the Divine Principle: the holy book of the Unification
: church (Rev. Moon), which you yourself probably believe in.
Well thank you. You know, it is hard to please everyone. If there
were quotes from Rev. Moon, one group would complain, if there are
none, then another group complains! :-) You may not know, but Rev.
Moon commissioned the work World Scripture to be produced. It took
40 scholars of the world's religions 5 years to write it.
But you misunderstand one thing. Unificationists believe that God
inspired many religions, so we take seriously the writings of all
the major religious teachers. So, just because Rev. Moon did not
say it does not invalidate it. He says that we need to inherit the
foundation of the major religions and live up to the spirit of
their teachings. So, a true man of God will practice the total
submission to God of the Muslim, and the lack of attachment of the
Buddhist, and the prayerfulness of the devout Jew, and the respect
for life of the Jain, and the repentance and humility of the true
Christian. When such people populate the Earth, we will be living
in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 15, 1995
To: whnute@tiac.net (William H. Nute)
Subject: Re: Sources for high school senior essay on cults
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
In article <4aqmvs$bh9@sundog.tiac.net> William H. Nute (whnute@tiac.net) wrote:
: Dear alt.support.ex-cult folks,
: I am a high school senior doing an argumentative/persuasive essay on cults,
: the government, and individual freedoms. This topic is a little difficult to
: get primary sources for and to find people in my area to interview. I would
: appreciate any advice and leads you can give me. I would like to correspond
: via e-mail to any expert in the field or anyone with personal experience on
: this subject.
I am a member of the Unification Church which many people consider
to be a cult. For your information, I think people worry about
small charismatic religious groups unnecessarily. What I think
is much more troublesome is the decline of religion as a whole,
such that it is barely acceptable for there to be any genuine religious
expression in public life, in the schools, in government, in the
social institutions that affect everyone. People of former generations
were on the whole much more religious than people are today. The
change signifies to me that traditional religions are not meeting
people's needs and they will go looking for what they need anywhere
they can find it.
If traditional religious groups find the so-called cults to be
a threat, then maybe they need to look at what such groups offer
to people that they cannot find elsewhere. I have been a member
of the Unification Church for 18 years, and have no intention of
cutting off my involvement. What I see is that the values that
the Unification Church teaches need to be brought to the society
as a whole, and the church institution as such is no longer needed.
For people of my faith, the foundadtion of the Kingdom of God,
the society that we are working towards creating, is not the church
but the family. The world where everyone is at peace with themselves
and their families, friends and neighbors is one global family
with God as our parents.
I can be an original source for you, and you can find a whole lot
more additional information in my home page listed in my signature below.
: I realize that these questions may strike close to the heart for many people
: in this newsgroup. For that I apologize in advance and thank anyone who is
: willing to help me out. I appreciate as much information as you are willing
: to share.
: Thanks,
: Katherine Nute (whnute@tiac.net)
You're welcome. Merry Christmas!
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Dec 16, 1995
Subject: Re: Lifespring...Is it okay?
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc
Followup-To: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <4ap6hv$34j@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >But calling it a dangerous cult? Nah.
: Not really an opinion. Is there anything you would call a dangerous cult
: at all (except of course CAN, which you will probably, in a weird leap
: of logic).
Well, I would consider a group dangerous if it were to be involved
in prostitution, murder, drug-running, kidnapping and beatings and
the like, but if it consists of people searching for ways to fulfill
idealistic and noble goals, then I would not call a group dangerous.
Now if CAN is involved in kidnapping and beating up religious people
to get them to deny their religious faith, then that to me is both
unethical and criminal. If they are just a group of people who
don't like new religions, but still respect other people's religious
freedoms, then I don't have such a big problem with that as they
also have the freedom to believe what they want, as long as they
are not harming others. So, I see very few religious groups falling
into that category of harming others. Maybe Charles Manson's group,
or Jim Jones' Peoples Temple, or Aum Shim Rikyo, but these are the
exeption rather than the rule among small new religious movements.
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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