Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 15
Subject: Re: CARP affiliation, hiding Moon, and campus recruiting tactics
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: We are not talking about Maryland. We are talking about well shown
: examples of misleading advertising. The first contact is what counts.
: Damian / You claim that you always show your affiliation, but NOOOT !
: The "excuse" is of course that "this group isn't the UC". CARP, CAUSA
: and known for decades to be recruiting fronts for the Moon cluster.
This is such UTTER NONSENSE! CARP is well known as a student
organization founded by Rev. Moon, but it has no need to put Rev.
Moon's name on every piece of advertising. The Methodist church
does not put John Wesley's name on its churches. They usually just
say "United Methodist Church" with no mention of John Wesley, although
it is well know that he is the founder of Methodism. So also, Rev.
Sun Myung Moon is well known as the founder of Unificationism and
the Unification Church and CARP, and we make no secret of it. We
have nothing to be ashamed of. If people don't know that, then
we will be glad to inform them, but I will not be dictated to by
a bunch of narrow minded blinkered bigots about how I present my
religious message and vision to the world!
I don't even know the founders of some churches. So what? It is
a perfectly legitimate activity of churches or church youth or
student organizations to offer programs for young people. Does
the Republican Party put "Republican Party - Party of Lincoln"
on all its materials? The whole idea of having to name the founder
on every mention of an organization is just patently ABSURD! That
does not mean that anyone is hiding anything, but just that the
name of Rev. Moon does not come up in every sentence in which one
is talking about our activities or organizations.
Besides, our teachings are not ABOUT Rev. Moon, they are HIS teachings
about God and the world. It seems that the religion OF JESUS degenerated
into a religion ABOUT JESUS, so people assume that we are the same.
We are not. Our faith is based on principles and values, and testimonies
of the lives of people who lived lives exemplifying such values
as a lesson for us all.
: An old strategy when losing a debate: redefinition. Besides, what sort
: of stuff would be shown at a moon presentation ? Apple Pie recipees ?
: Silk painting ? Nooooo. They will be submitted to the amazing wisdom
: that a convicted tax criminal and his current wife are the "true
: parents".
Well, I would have thought that was obvious. We are teaching the
Unification Principle which is the teachings of Rev. Sun Myung
Moon. You may put as negative a light on it as you want, but if
people want to hear that, I'm sorry that it just eats you up, but
that's life! We live in a society that guarantees religious liberty,
unlike Europe, and we take pride in that.
: The whole debate was about if front groups (like CARP, CAUSA, ...) do
: show their affiliation. You people claimed yes. Peegee claimed no.
: Others claimed no. And Mike did so. And you're caught like a kid with
: its hands in the cookie jar.
They are not front groups of anything. Rev. Moon simply started
different organizations to reach different constituencies. There
is nothing sinister about that. Usually at these events, we present
a video tape of Rev. Moon's life and his work, so it is perfectly
clear from the initial presentation that the organization is affiliated
with Rev. Moon.
: >with a different purpose and function and funding from the Unification
: >Church. It would be false to say it was the Unification Church; but the
: The groups are financed and steered by the Moon organisation.
Which "Moon organization" ??? UC? CARP? CAUSA? PWPA? IRFWP? FWP? ..... ???
: >relationship with the founder of the UC and that it was inspired by the
: >principles he espouses is not hidden. If you have a problem with that, too
: >bad.
: Eric, I loved your response, since it shows very well that deception is
: indeed used and is official strategy. Damian's post was just PR, and he
: knows it.
Nonsense, Tilman. You have been presented with facts numerous times,
but you seem to want to hold on to your prejudices regardless of
the facts. If you don't believe me, why don't you go to a presentation
of CARP or the Unification Church and find out for yourself? I
am sure you can find it in the Berlin phonebook. If not, I will
find out for you.
: Tilman
: --- Tilman Hausherr [KoX; awards: DB, SP decl. by Koos]
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Subject: Re: CARP affiliation, hiding Moon, and campus recruiting tactics
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
References: <46dh5e$c0j@linet02.li.net> <46g5og$f73@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <46jem8$plf@sundog.tiac.net> <489el8$77g@sadie.digex.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
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Mike Doughney (mike@sadie.digex.net) wrote:
: Knowing that Eric's claim that CARP doesn't engage in deceptive
: recruiting by hiding the fact that they're just another front for
: Moon was probably completely bogus, I took a ride down to the
: University of Maryland campus. On just one poster kiosk a few feet
: away from the intersection of Baltimore Blvd. and Regents Drive, I
: obtained 9 posters for recent and upcoming CARP events.
: On none of them do the two words "Unification Church" appear. Also no
: trace of the name "Moon". There's references to other groups,
: including
Hey, Mike. These are not Unification Church events, they are CARP
events. That would be like saying, these are Campus Crusade for
Christ events, not Lutheran Church events. There is a difference
in the purpose and audience of such groups. The Unification Church
is a religious organization which attracts people of all ages,
CARP is specifically a student organization, like CCC.
And by the way, who is the founder of the Ex-cult Archives, where
does the money come from and what is the purpose of your organization?
Let's not talk about double standards here! Also, what is it a
front for? CAN, AFF, the CPUSA? Let's get specific here, or you
are just engaging such hypocrisy that it reeks.
: I think it's pretty clear to any reasonable person that the people
: putting on these events are, just like any deceptive and destructive
: cult, giving potential recruits what they want to hear, attracting
: them with things like "free food," and clearly hiding their
: affiliation with the Unification Church - little to nothing in these
: posters gives away any reference to a religion or a "church" at all,
: does it?
Great, students like free food. So, what elese is new? Are we giving
them drugs, whores? There are a lot worse things that people do
on campus. Is there a law against generosity?
: And there's an e-mail address on the posters - but unlike any real
: student organization, who would include the on-campus e-mail address
: of a student, the e-mail address is that of someone at America
: Online. Presumably this indicates that the entire organization is run
: by non-students.
Did it ever occur to you that the students change from year to
year, but the organization has a constant e-mail address? This
is no mystery.
: Also the high frequency of these events during the fall semester
: clearly shows that the organization is targeting freshmen who are away
: from home for the first time and may be looking for safe events at
: which to meet others of similar backgrounds. Of course that isn't the
: real purpose of these events, is it?
You may see teaching people about God and sexual purity and those
other things as sinister. If so, then that is your choice. I think
it is a good idea to instill such values in young people, whether
they happen to join the organization or not, simply because it
is a good thing to do. We also organize volunteer projects in such
places as the war zone of Croatia, or Poland, or some other unfortunate
place. If you can never find anything right in what we do, it is
hard to justufy even spending the time to talk to you about it.
You seem to be absolutely convinced that anything remotely associated
with Rev. Moon must be bad, no matter what the facts are. That
is hatred and bigotry, pure and simple. Is that what they taught
you in kindergarten and Sunday School?
: So all I can say is that it's clear to me that Eric is just another
: lying Moonie son of a bitch. He knows quite well what the standard
: campus recruiting methods are, but he'd never admit it here.
You don't seem to be a being filled with love, but a bitter individual
consumed with hatred. May God have mercy on your soul.
: Guess it's time to get my hands on a scanner and put copies of these
: posters on the ex-cult web page.
Go ahead! Make my day! :-)
: Finger mike@access.digex.net for public key. mike@sadie.digex.net
: Copyright (c) 1995 Michael T. Doughney All Rights Reserved. http://mtd.com
: Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness. -- seen on the net
: This space, and others, for rent. Inquire within.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Subject: Re: Moon, the anti-Semite
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <47d53u$6v2@zippy.cais.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
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David D. Rogers (drogers@csun.edu) wrote:
: In article <47d53u$6v2@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: : I have been informed by several people that Rev. Moon issued a
: : statement on the Holocaust in 1976, and that I have in fact
: : misrepresented what he teaches on this subject. I don't know where
: : Steve Hassan got this quote, but I did not verify it, and that
: : was an error on my part. I received a copy of that statement in
: : the mail (snail) and I will scan and post the statement as soon
: : as I get the time.
: :
: : : How interesting. So the Moonie leader (assumiong a correrct
: : : quotation) is an anti-Semite. Okay FECs, I'm waiting to hear
: : : you denounce him.
: :
: : I have not been able to establish the authenticity of the quote.
: It's been almost thirteen days. Have you found anything new?
Yes, I apologize. I just scanned it and posted it in a separate
post entitled "Rev. Moon: Statement on Jews and Israel". I hope
that clarifies some things.
: Peace,
: <> David
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Nov 20 1995
Subject: Re: Rev. Moon: Statement on Jews and Israel
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <48l2ph$7rs@unlisys.unlisys.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: Moon, in an attempt to cover-up previous boo-boos, makes a new one:
: >[Judaism, Christianity and the Unification Movement] are indeed
: >three brothers in the Providence of God. Then, Israel, the United
: >States and Korea, the nations where these three religions are based
: Could someone buy that guy a clue ? Christianity *based* in the United
: States ???
One can truthfully say that America is the leading Christian
nation of the world. Of course, it did not originate in America,
but America was founded as a Christian nation where people could
come to practice their religion without the persecution they experienced
in the Old World. That persecution seems to be still alive today.
Despite its faults, America is a generous nation in its dealings
with other countries. America gave financial aid to Germany and
Japan after the end of World War II. What other nation in the history
of humanity has been so generous in victory? If it had not been
for that, Germany and Japan would have been broken defeated nations
after 1945, rather than the economic powerhouses that they are
today. They need to recognize their debt to America. They were
the instigators of an enormous evil in this century, with the Nazi
period in Germany and the Japanese militarists overtaking many
nations and brutally suppressing them. I would say that if they
had been defeated by Russia instead of Germany, you would have
seen the extension of the Gulag, rather than the hand of friendship
and reconciliation. It is due to the inherent goodness of the American
people based on the inspiration of the Christian religion that
you saw such virtue, in response to their own brutality and atrocities.
It is true that today it is losing its founding spirit and declining,
but that could equally be said of all the European nations too.
Where do you find a nation anywhere that embodies the true Christian
spirit? I would say that corrupt as it is, there is none better
than America.
: --- Tilman Hausherr [KoX; awards: DB, SP decl. by Koos]
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Nov 21, 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Judgements and Punishments
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam
References: <48l2pk$7rs@unlisys.unlisys.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In , "Damian J.
: Anderson" wrote:
: >JUDGEMENTS AND PUNISHMENTS
: >
: > One of the chief justifications of government is that it should
: >preserve law and order, protect the innocent, and punish criminals.
: R e a d m y l i p s:
: pay
: your
: taxes !
Hey, I paid about $20,000 in US taxes last year!
: >Judgments must be made with great care, in order not to mistakenly punish
: >innocent people. The judge should not be partial, but should treat
: >everyone with an equal eye.
: Oh. I guess one tax criminal (that I will not name this time :-)), who
: is frequently discussed on this newsgroup, has a special ability to
: "judge judges".
I would say that Rev. Moon is more qualified to stand as the Lord
of Judgement than any other living human being.
: Tilman
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Nov 21, 1995
Subject: Re: CNN Says CAN Consulted At Waco
Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
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Carol Moore (cmoore@upx.net) wrote:
: The CNN report on the Jonestown memorial
: interviewed Patricia Ryan and said that
: CAN had consulted (implicitly the feds)
: at Waco. I have
: heard they say they haven't. What's
: the story?
I have seen reports that the deprogrammer Ross was there, the
guy who recently lost a $5 million lawsuit for forcibly trying
to change the faith of a young Christian. In other words, I believe
that the reports are true that CAN was involved. They gave advice
such as to use psychological warfare by having loud music blare
into the compound and deny people the opportunity to sleep, and
have bright lights shining on them at all hours. I guess CAN uses
the tactics that it accuses its prey of.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Nov 22, 1995
Subject: Re: CARP affiliation, hiding Moon, and campus recruiting tactics
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
References: <46dh5e$c0j@linet02.li.net> <46g5og$f73@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <46jem8$plf@sundog.tiac.net> <489el8$77g@sadie.digex.net> <48dml1$hc2@unlisys.unlisys.net> <48k2f2$jib@zippy.cais.net> <48l2pe$7rs@unlisys.unlisys.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <48k2f2$jib@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: >
: >: We are not talking about Maryland. We are talking about well shown
: >: examples of misleading advertising. The first contact is what counts.
: >: Damian / You claim that you always show your affiliation, but NOOOT !
: >: The "excuse" is of course that "this group isn't the UC". CARP, CAUSA
: >: and known for decades to be recruiting fronts for the Moon cluster.
: >
: >This is such UTTER NONSENSE! CARP is well known as a student
: >organization founded by Rev. Moon, but it has no need to put Rev.
: >Moon's name on every piece of advertising.
: You have not even refused my above statement.
: Your debate level gets poorer and poorer. Here a short history:
: Critics: Moon org recruits thru deceptive advertising, especially thru
: front groups.
: PR: Proclaim to the world, "I am a proud member for the Unification
: Church. That means I am a child of the True Parents." Don't try
: to hide that relationship. Anyone who takes a hiding place is
: automatically inviting the invasion of Satan. Do you understand?
: Critics:
: PR: CARP is well-known as part of the US, it doesn't have to say it.
: If CARP is "well-known", then why doesn't it say that it is part of the
: UC, and better, put the UC on it ? *Both* was not done.
CARP is not part of the Unification Church. It is a separate organization.
CARP is not *denying* its affiliation with Rev. Moon.
: For a start, put "an organisation of the unification church". This would
: really help. It would be better to put Moon's name on it. But as I said,
: "UC" on it would be a good start. And for the non-religigious lobby
: organisations, you should put the name of the founder.
Well, the last contact I had with CARP was to co-sponsor an event
to invite people to hear Mrs. Moon speak, and her photo and her
name were on the flyer.
: >The Methodist church
: >does not put John Wesley's name on its churches. They usually just
: >say "United Methodist Church" with no mention of John Wesley, although
: Indeed. They put the name on it. CARP doesn't. BTW, does the UMC have
: front groups ?
The UMC have various kinds of organizations, but nobody would dream
of calling methodist organizations "front groups". The whole idea
of calling organizations affiliation with Rev. Moon "front groups"
is an attempt to make the normal look sinister, when there is nothing
wrong. CARP do put their name on flyers and posters. I am quite
sure of that.
: >it is well know that he is the founder of Methodism. So also, Rev.
: >Sun Myung Moon is well known as the founder of Unificationism and
: >the Unification Church and CARP, and we make no secret of it. We
: No it is not well-known, and you make a secret of it, as Mike has
: proven. You contradict yourself. How would it be well-known, if you
: don't mention it ? I would expect a better understanding of logic of a
: guy who works in the same profession as I do.
If you were to attend the program, you would find out very clearly
what is said there. You criticize what you know very little about.
: >have nothing to be ashamed of. If people don't know that, then
: >we will be glad to inform them, but I will not be dictated to by
: >a bunch of narrow minded blinkered bigots about how I present my
: >religious message and vision to the world!
: No, Damian. You have to tell them directly, and not after they ask.
Look at my signature. Look at my Home Page. Am I hiding anything?
: Here is what your "true" dad said:
: "Proclaim to the world, "I am a proud member for the Unification
: Church. That means I am a child of the True Parents." Don't try
: to hide that relationship. Anyone who takes a hiding place is
: automatically inviting the invasion of Satan. Do you understand?
: Damian, I think you have not understood. Are you inviting the invasion
: of Satan ?
Not me.
: >I don't even know the founders of some churches. So what? It is
: >a perfectly legitimate activity of churches or church youth or
: >student organizations to offer programs for young people. Does
: >the Republican Party put "Republican Party - Party of Lincoln"
: >on all its materials?
: But they put the name of their party on it !!! (Although I know that
: Newt has indeed a "front group", The "progress and freedom foundation",
: and this is as bad if they don't mention the connection)
I see nothing wrong with that.
: >The whole idea of having to name the founder
: >on every mention of an organization is just patently ABSURD! That
: >does not mean that anyone is hiding anything, but just that the
: >name of Rev. Moon does not come up in every sentence in which one
: >is talking about our activities or organizations.
: I guess you people are embarassed. I would, too. He is a criminal and
: should have resigned immediately, and forward the business to one of his
: clan.
Nonsense! He was convicted on a trumped up charge over $12,000
in taxes when he has brought BILLIONS of dollars into America which
have benefited this country. If he owed $12,000 in taxes, why didn't
they just send him a bill?
: >Besides, our teachings are not ABOUT Rev. Moon, they are HIS teachings
: >about God and the world. It seems that the religion OF JESUS degenerated
: >into a religion ABOUT JESUS, so people assume that we are the same.
: >We are not. Our faith is based on principles and values, and testimonies
: >of the lives of people who lived lives exemplifying such values
: >as a lesson for us all.
: Bullshit. You really expect anyone to believe that ? Can't you even read
: the stuff you're spamming ? Your teachings are that Moon and his current
: wife are the "true parents".
Maybe YOU should read it. The ideal of True Parents is one that
I believe everyone would do well to aspire to, and I see Rev.
and Mrs. Moon as a couple who have achieved it. The ideal exists
independently of the personalities.
: >: An old strategy when losing a debate: redefinition. Besides, what sort
: >: of stuff would be shown at a moon presentation ? Apple Pie recipees ?
: >: Silk painting ? Nooooo. They will be submitted to the amazing wisdom
: >: that a convicted tax criminal and his current wife are the "true
: >: parents".
: >
: >Well, I would have thought that was obvious. We are teaching the
: >Unification Principle which is the teachings of Rev. Sun Myung
: >Moon.
: But you don't tell that MOON wrote this.
Huh? Didn't I just do just that? People on the net know just fine
that I am a member of the Unification Church. They could hardly
have missed it if they were paying attention.
: >You may put as negative a light on it as you want, but if
: >people want to hear that, I'm sorry that it just eats you up, but
: >that's life! We live in a society that guarantees religious liberty,
: >unlike Europe, and we take pride in that.
: Don't be silly. You can practice in Europe like in the US. Only the
: deception allowed is less. Besides, some european countries don't like
: it when some criminal applies for visa. We just try to keep criminality
: low. Crime is a big problem in modern society.
Rev. Moon was railroaded. He is an innocent man. Was Jesus a criminal
just because he was brought before a court and executed? Were Martin
Luther King Jr., St. Paul or Peter criminals? They all spent time in jail.
: >: The whole debate was about if front groups (like CARP, CAUSA, ...) do
: >: show their affiliation. You people claimed yes. Peegee claimed no.
: >: Others claimed no. And Mike did so. And you're caught like a kid with
: >: its hands in the cookie jar.
: >
: >They are not front groups of anything. Rev. Moon simply started
: >different organizations to reach different constituencies. There
: front groups
: >is nothing sinister about that. Usually at these events, we present
: >a video tape of Rev. Moon's life and his work, so it is perfectly
: >clear from the initial presentation that the organization is affiliated
: >with Rev. Moon.
: Why don't you tell it on the ads? Because less people would come ! You
: have just proven with that paragraph that these orgs are recruitings
: fronts.
Rev. Moon encourages us to use his name, so I cannot be accountable
for what others do, but you certainly cannot accuse me of that.
Anyway, I don't believe your charge that CARP does not use their
name on their posters. Have you seen this for yourself? How would
people know whom to contact if there was no organization name or
phone number?
: >: >with a different purpose and function and funding from the Unification
: >: >Church. It would be false to say it was the Unification Church; but the
: >
: >: The groups are financed and steered by the Moon organisation.
: >
: >Which "Moon organization" ??? UC? CARP? CAUSA? PWPA? IRFWP? FWP? ..... ???
: The whole cluster. I don't know about your corporate structures. Feel
: free to scan and OCR the finance details.
Sorry, I don't have such information on finances. You can look
on my home page under activities for information on organizations:
http://www.unification.net/activities/
: >: >relationship with the founder of the UC and that it was inspired by the
: >: >principles he espouses is not hidden. If you have a problem with that, too
: >: >bad.
: >
: >: Eric, I loved your response, since it shows very well that deception is
: >: indeed used and is official strategy. Damian's post was just PR, and he
: >: knows it.
: >
: >Nonsense, Tilman. You have been presented with facts numerous times,
: >but you seem to want to hold on to your prejudices regardless of
: >the facts. If you don't believe me, why don't you go to a presentation
: >of CARP or the Unification Church and find out for yourself? I
: >am sure you can find it in the Berlin phonebook. If not, I will
: >find out for you.
: CARP is not in the Berlin phone book.
: CAUSA is not in the Berlin phone book.
: Vereinigungskirche is not in the Berlin phone book.
: This is weird, because I remember that a CARP newspaper was distributed
: at the university when I studied. (No, I don't remember if the
: affiliation was mentioned. I didn't care much at that time, although I
: knew if was a Moon mouthpiece, I usually warned fellow students and
: dumped the paper because it wasn't soft enough and had ink on it)
I will look up contacts for you in Berlin.
: Tilman
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Nov 22, 1995
On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Raashied Galant wrote:
> Dear Damian
>
> Thank you for your prompt reply to my letter.
> Firstly, I know you and your address from reading your various
> contributions to the alt.universal-life newsgroup. It is through you
> that I have pursued the teachings and work of the Unification Church.
That is curious. I have never posted to that newsgroup to my knowledge.
Maybe it was a response to a cross-posted article.
> By the way, I have posted my article but have not seen any replies.
I looked but still did not see any articles by you.
> Now I wish to go onto something else. I read your latest contribution
> to the alt.religion-islam newsgroup concerning Rev. Moon's statement
> on Jews and Israel. Now I must tell you that I am Muslim (I was born
> and raised as a Muslim), but the legacy of Islam that I have received
> and which dictates my conduct particularly in
> relation to other faiths is very different - if not alien - to that
> reflected by muslims who contribute to this newsgroup. This is why I
> wanted to reply to you personally, and not via that newsgroups (I
> wanted to mail to you earlier after seeing some rather distressing
> comments about you and your contributions in this newsgroup, but I
> just never had the time). I'm sure your contribution on the Jews and
> Israel with illicit quite a hostile response from that newsgroup
> since not only do I find the Muslims who contribute to this group
> paranoid (an indication of them having lost faith or perhaps doubting
> the power of God) but also believers not in God, but in Islam as an
> end in itself.
Thank you for your support. I see little evidence of faith among those who
speak angrily in defense of their dogmas on the Internet.
> I don't know if this perhaps give you an indication of
> the type of God consciousness that has been passed onto me, but I
> really do not wish do go into it unless you so request. Anyway,
> having read the statement by Rev. Moon, I wish to ask you a few
> questions.
> 1) While I do believe that the holocaust was the most herrific human
> catastrophe this century, the declaration of the state of Israel and
> the Zionist's dream, I believe, should not be seen within the same
> context as the latter emerged before the former (do you agree with
> this?)
It would appear that Zionism existed before the Holocaust, but no doubt
gained great momentum and urgency as a result of it.
> Now following from this, I make a great distinction between
> Judiasm as a religion ordained by God, and Zionism as a nationalist
> ideal. Hence don't you think there are certain injustices implicit in
> Zionism by assuming the right to claim and occupy land on the basis
> of certain historical precendents going back hundreds of years? Can
> one therefore, in the name of God, justice and peace, give blanket
> acceptance to the imposition of the state of Israel? (bearing in mind
> that Saddam Hussein went back just a few decades in claiming that
> Kuwait was part of his country, which it was then, but this did not give
> him the right to want invade and occupy that land in 1991)
The land belongs to God and nobody else. All borders of national
territories have been drawn in blood, and this is contrary to the will of
God. He desires us all to be one family with no borders to keep our
brothers in or out.
> 2) What is the church's position on Islam, Muhammad and the Quran? I
> do not expect the church to have a position on this as a matter of
> course, I merely ask. I also do not expect a very flowery position
> (if it has any) as you may realise by now, I am a very open minded
> person.
I intend to acquire an electronic copy of "Essentials of the Unification
Principle" either by scanning or from the publisher. It contains some
insights into the Unification view of Islam. One brief quote:
"Because of common ancestral roots, Islam, on the one hand, and
Judeo-Christianity, on the other, share parallel, fraternal missions.
They should cooperate like two brothers working together to prepare the
way for true parents." Essentials of the Unification Principle, Thomas
Cromwell, 1994, p 195.
Rev. Moon has had extensive outreach to Islamic leaders so that the Grand
Muftis of Yemen, Egypt and Syria have sent their top leaders to be
educated by Rev. Moon. We have a book teaching the Unification Principle
referring to the teachings of Islam rather than Christianity, as the
concepts are universal and can fit in with any of the major religions.
The World Scripture is an effort originated by Rev. Moon to bridge the
gaps between the faiths by showing how much we all have in common.
> 3) The antagonism between Islam and the West (I use this term in a
> very general way, meaning non-Muslim) is emerging as the new "cold
> war". This sets the world up for a very dangerous scenario much like
> the previous cold-war between the west and communism had done. Does
> the Unification Church see itself as perhaps taking any sides over
> here as it had taken sides against communism in the past? Do you
> think there is perhaps a role for the church in actually easing the
> tensions caused by this "cold war"? As you can see, I see the church
> very much as a "third party" in the global scenario - Christains and
> Muslims, Jews and Muslims, Hindus and Muslims, Americans and Muslims
> (each in those individual contexts and subsequently having global
> manisfestations) have historical and national reasons for opposing
> each other (this does not mean there is any religious sanctioning for
> conflict between these groups), but the Unification Church has not
> been affected as yet. Don't you think therefore that the church,
> considering this position, can actually play a very unique role?
The Church has and is playing a role as peacemaker in many arenas, in
particular in the Middle East and in the North-South Korea conflict.
In August, we hosted an event with about 40 former heads of state to
discuss regional and world conflicts, in an effort to seek solutions based
on a God-centered view of the world. George Bush spoke this last Sunday
before our Women's Federation for World Peace in Washington DC to
commemorate the end of hostilities between Japan and America. In this
event, 500 American women and 500 Japanese women pledged to become sisters
and work for peace and cooperation between their nations. We did the same
thing between Japan and Korea a year or so ago. We plan to do the same
kind of events worldwide to bring people together internationally. Then
there is the 3.6 million couples wedding planned for 1997 in which many
people will pledge eternal love to someone of another race, creed or
nation, in many cases, and eliminate the historical animosities by
creating a God-centered family. Then the in-laws will be related and will
learn to love one another. Then how can they fight a war?
> These are just some of the questions I want to ask at this time. I
> think you can understand now why I didn't want to communicate with
> you via the newsgroups, it will just unleash a blind brawl, or
> perhaps more accurately, a brawl by the blind.
I would like to answer all your questions and request that I be allowed
to post my responses to you with your name removed. Would that be okay
with you?
Also, would you tell me everything you can about efforts being made to
stop Rev. Moon entering the country? Thanks.
> Peace and hoping to hear from you soon.
>
> Raashied
>
> P.S. if possible, please mark mail you send to me "for attention
> Raashied", as I share a mailbox with a colleague.
Will do.
God bless you,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Nov 22, 1995
Subject: Re: MORAL DOWNFALL: a Baha'i View
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <48s2uf$hrb@news.sas.ab.ca>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
mjavid@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
: THE WORLD ORDER OF BAHA'U'LLAH
: Selected Letters of Shoghi Effendi
: (U.S., First pocket-sized edition, 1991)
: (ISBN 0-87743-231-7)
: THE UNFOLDMENT OF WORLD CIVILIZATION
: (11 March 1936)
: A Baha'i View
Dear Mesbah,
I would like to commend you on your posting of the Baha'i texts
on the Internet. The religion newsgroups are full of hatred and
irreligion, so I welcome the words of a Godly man and the teachings
of your prophet Baha'u'llah.
You may well receive opposition and trouble because of what you
are doing, but please continue anyway. You may have seen my posts
of Unification texts on the Internet. I believe that God's words
arouse the conscience of people, whether they want it to happen
or not, and then the guilty feel convicted and the seekers feel
vindicated and free to pursue the heartfelt desire of their conscience
which brings lasting and deeply felt joy.
Keep up the good work.
Sincerely,
Damian Anderson
: ************************************************************************
: Mesbah Javid * One planet one government please!
: email: mjavid@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca *
: ************************************************************************
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Nov 24, 1995
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de
Subject: Re: CARP affiliation, hiding Moon, and campus recruiting tactics
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
In article <4906gr$o14@unlisys.unlisys.net> Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <48ueoa$n9j@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:
: >: If CARP is "well-known", then why doesn't it say that it is part of the
: >: UC, and better, put the UC on it ? *Both* was not done.
: >
: >CARP is not part of the Unification Church. It is a separate organization.
: I suggest you look at this web page:
: http://www.unification.net/activities
Please do.
: Does CARP teach the divine principle ?
: [ ] Yes
: [ ] No
: [ ] I don't know
: [ ] None of your business
Yes.
: >CARP is not *denying* its affiliation with Rev. Moon.
: I am not talking about "not denying". I talking about "not telling".
: >: For a start, put "an organisation of the unification church". This would
: >: really help. It would be better to put Moon's name on it. But as I said,
: >: "UC" on it would be a good start. And for the non-religigious lobby
: >: organisations, you should put the name of the founder.
: >
: >Well, the last contact I had with CARP was to co-sponsor an event
: >to invite people to hear Mrs. Moon speak, and her photo and her
: >name were on the flyer.
: Did the flyer mention the name ?
: [ ] Yes
: [ ] No
Yes. All the CARP flyers I have seen mention the name "Collegiate
Association for the Research of Principles" which is what CARP
stands for. That is its name.
: >: >The Methodist church
: >: >does not put John Wesley's name on its churches. They usually just
: >: >say "United Methodist Church" with no mention of John Wesley, although
: >
: >: Indeed. They put the name on it. CARP doesn't. BTW, does the UMC have
: >: front groups ?
: >
: >The UMC have various kinds of organizations, but nobody would dream
: >of calling methodist organizations "front groups".
: I don't care about the UMC. I don't even know their beliefs, now do I
: care about it. Why can't you stay on topic ?
I was illustrating that any other church can have various groups
and not be accused of having nefarious "front groups" so why can't
we do the same?
: > The whole idea
: >of calling organizations affiliation with Rev. Moon "front groups"
: >is an attempt to make the normal look sinister, when there is nothing
: >wrong. CARP do put their name on flyers and posters. I am quite
: >sure of that.
: Of course CARP puts its own name on the flyers. But does it tell its
: affiliation ? Mike showed that *no*. And they know why.
I cannot say that every CARP publication mentions Rev. Moon's name,
but I have one in front of me and it mentions Rev. Sun Myung Moon
on the first page.
: Here's a little quiz. Tell me for which major cult the following
: organisations are a front group:
: "United Churches"
: "Church of American Science"
: "Foundation of the advancement of science"
I have never heard of any of them.
: >: No it is not well-known, and you make a secret of it, as Mike has
: >: proven. You contradict yourself. How would it be well-known, if you
: >: don't mention it ? I would expect a better understanding of logic of a
: >: guy who works in the same profession as I do.
: >
: >If you were to attend the program, you would find out very clearly
: >what is said there. You criticize what you know very little about.
: I want to know it *before*. BEFORE !!!! That is deception. Lure these
: people in, and don't tell them what it is about.
Why? Are you in martal danger if you walk into a room and *GASP*,
there are disciples of Rev. Moon in the room!
: >: >have nothing to be ashamed of. If people don't know that, then
: >: >we will be glad to inform them, but I will not be dictated to by
: >: >a bunch of narrow minded blinkered bigots about how I present my
: >: >religious message and vision to the world!
: >
: >: No, Damian. You have to tell them directly, and not after they ask.
: >
: >Look at my signature. Look at my Home Page. Am I hiding anything?
: Why do you keep evading the issues. I talk about the CARP papers that
: Mike mentioned. You are of course not deceiving anyone here. "You" in
: this case was meant rhetorically. I mean "Your organisation". Especially
: CARP and CAUSA.
Maybe they are not always straightforward, and if so, there may
well be good reasons for it. However, I think that on the whole,
openness is the best policy.
: Did you ever raise money in the field ?
Yes, I did.
: What did you tell the people ?
Sometimes I sold flowers at a stand, and I just told people the
prices. Sometimes, I mentioned Rev. Moon's name, sometimes I
didn't. Maybe you could understand why that is, were you to know
that I was beaten up and robbed TWICE IN ONE DAY in Boston, MA
in 1981 because of my affiliation to the Unification Church, one
of those times at gunpoint. Now, that may give anyone pause to
say openly what he represents when those are the consequences.
It is all very well for you in the quiet smugness of your own home
to pontificate about what other people should do in potentially
life-threatening situations. You have no right to tell me or anyone
else what to do or how we should behave.
: Moon sez:
: "Proclaim to the world, "I am a proud member for the Unification
: Church. That means I am a child of the True Parents." Don't try
: to hide that relationship. Anyone who takes a hiding place is
: automatically inviting the invasion of Satan. Do you understand?
: >: But you don't tell that MOON wrote this.
: >
: >Huh? Didn't I just do just that? People on the net know just fine
: >that I am a member of the Unification Church. They could hardly
: >have missed it if they were paying attention.
: Again, I am not talking about what you spam here. I am talking about the
: stuff told in the seminars. When the guy reads it, does he know
: immediately the name of the author ?
Rev. Moon's name is on the Divine Principle and on his speeches.
: >: >You may put as negative a light on it as you want, but if
: >: >people want to hear that, I'm sorry that it just eats you up, but
: >: >that's life! We live in a society that guarantees religious liberty,
: >: >unlike Europe, and we take pride in that.
: >
: >: Don't be silly. You can practice in Europe like in the US. Only the
: >: deception allowed is less. Besides, some european countries don't like
: >: it when some criminal applies for visa. We just try to keep criminality
: >: low. Crime is a big problem in modern society.
: >
: >Rev. Moon was railroaded. He is an innocent man. Was Jesus a criminal
: >just because he was brought before a court and executed? Were Martin
: >Luther King Jr., St. Paul or Peter criminals? They all spent time in jail.
: Moon had a lot of $$ to defend himself. Unlike Jesus. Moon had even more
: $$ than OJ.
Yes, and he had a jury pool who were willing to convict him regardless
of the facts becaus the media had made the man into a monster.
: Moon is as guilty as sin itself. Moon is a tax-sinner :-)
He who is without sin can cast the first stone. You are in no way
qualified to judge Rev. Moon.
: Tilman
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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Nov 24, 1995
Subject: Re: Rev. Sun Myung Moon to grace South Africa with his presence
Newsgroups: za.misc,za.politics,alt.religion.universal-life,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
References: <4946gn$f6u@aztec.co.za>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Distribution:
Tony Harverson (tony@hornet.netac.co.za) wrote:
: Raa (fxi@wn.apc.org) wrote:
: : On Tuesday this week, the Reverend Sun Myung Moon will grace South Africa with his
: : presence. His presence in this country will indeed be a landmark event and serve to strengthen
: : the spirit of God consciousness that pervades this country.
: : His visit, I do believe, is no accident, but is in line with the visits of
: : other great religious leaders to this country in thepast few years - notable
Rev. Moon did come to South Africa and had a successful speaking
engagement, before leaving the country for another event in his world tour.
: bwahahahahahahahaha - puh-lease take this off to za.religion or za.please.
: rip.me.off.of.all.my.money.my.religious.cult.leader.who.is.comparable.
: with.the.pope.....
Well, one may expect a more mature response from a civilised country
to the visit of a world level religious leader.
: : Peace
: Peace man - enjoy giving your money to the millionare...
He was not asking anyone for money. He is calling for a worldwide
spiritual revival, and the pursuit of the ideal of the true family
based on Godly parents.
: Tony
: ps : for anyone who knows the history of the moonies... is this
: man for real or is this reallt the flambait it looks like ?
Well, I think I know a little more than you do about the Unification
Church having been a member since 1977 and having worked with
the church in four countries. Just because the man has received
a lot of criticism does not necessarily make him wrong.
And if you want to know more about the Unification Church, you
can check out my Home Page listed in my signature below. I will
post the text of his speech in a follow up post.
: Tony
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net
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