Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 8
Oct 1 1995 07:32
Subject: Re: MOON RUN THE GUN-PLANT
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: remember, put "posted and mailed" if it is a courtesy copy.
: On Sat, 30 Sep 1995 06:47:44 -0700, you wrote:
: >>I seriously doubt that the N-word can be seen equal to the M-word,
: >>but I won't use it in this forum until I get my point of view
: >>confirmed by a respected person (by me).
: >
: >Zieg Heil, mein Fuhrer!
: The correct spelling is "Sieg Heil, mein Führer!".
Laszlo, I think that was uncalled for.
: > , but my question is what should we call you?
: On alt.religion.scientology, cult critics are usually called "bigots" and
: "persecutors".
Why is there a need to label people at all? In this case, certain
individuals oppose the Unification Church. Do they oppose all
religions equally, or only small unpopular ones? Why not just called
them by their name? It seems that this gentleman wants to be called
Tilman. Let's just leave it at that, and dispense with the pejoratives,
the name calling and the verbal abuse. I know that such insults
are the norm for the Internet, but I would prefer that it not be
the norm on alt.religion.unification.
: >Biggie (for bigott)? Mighty obnoxious One? The jerk who came
: >for breakfeast at
: >dinnertime? Skinnie (for skinhead)? Nanie (for Nazi)? Or should
: >be Fafie (for
: >fascist)? "You" guys after all smoked up 10 million Jews and
: >other undesirables?
: >Which one do YOU like your children to be called?
Laszlo, were any of your relatives killed in the camps? I have
family on both sides of this painful issue. One of my sisters-in-law
is Jewish and her family is from Holland. Many of them died in
the camps. I have another sister-in-law who is Jewish who lives
in Pennsylvania, but they were not in Europe in that period. My
grandfather was a Nazi SS Officer, though later in life, he came
to realize that what Hitler had done was a big mistake. But in
the early years, he as a true believer. My mother was in the Hitler
Youth, as were most kids of her age group, but rejected that whole
world view and became a Christian after the war. I was raised in
a Catholic home, thanks to my loving parents.
: I am still waiting for an argument that calling a moon follower a
: moonie is a sign of fascism.
It is merely a sign of disrespect, not a reflection on your political
philosophy.
: Or does the Reverend have a rule that
: if the cult is critized by a german, then the german must be
: a fascist ?
Well, I object to my religion being called a "cult" also. And I
have no problem with Germans per se as I happen to be half German.
I would be the last person to call someone a Nazi, unless that
was their avowed political persuasion.
: That is the critic is from spain, then he is an
: inquisitor ? If he is from Russia, he is a former communist (!) ?
: If he is from Italy, he is a mafiosi ? If he from Holland, he is
: a drug user ? (did I left some out ?)
No, none of these necessarily follow. Perhaps Laszlo, with his
eastern European origins is letting her personal bias show. I for
one do not believe that any German with whom I disagree is automatically
a Nazi.
: Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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00:03 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Argument with God
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism
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Lee in PigsEye (leelove@millcomm.com) wrote:
: Eric B. Richardson (richa011@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: The tree just needs to be a tree. It is in the forest, being a
: tree without any effort. Unlike human beings, nobody needs to tell them
: what their true nature is.
: No need to cut them down and write words about them on their
: flesh. Just let the trees be trees.
: Diversity is extremely important. Understanding is important, but
: we don't need another artificial category to do that. If we all just
: dropped the categories, then we'd realize that we are all "just trees in
: the same forest." How can you unify something that has never been in
: disunity?
Who said anything about removing diversity? In deciduous forests
here in the USA, such as in Shenandoah National Park near Washington
DC, there are 150 miles of forest with many kinds of trees. This
time of year is most beautiful as the various kinds of trees come
into their brilliant foliage colors in the fall.
I have no interest in making a forest of only one kind of tree.
God created every individual to reflect a unique aspect of Himself,
and each human being is different from every other. God would have
it no other way, yet we are all one family. So, we can all be of
one human race, one human family, descendents of the one God, yet
be each uniquely reflecting a different aspect of the Divine Nature.
Each human being is indispensible as each one gives a different
joy to his or her Father who made us all.
God Himself would be bored if we were all clones out of the same
mold. He intentionally made us all different. And God revealed
himself to various religious leaders, including Buddha, Muhammad,
Abraham, Moses, Jesus and taught us differently through each one.
I find the insights of the Buddha to be inspiring and of lasting
value. Why would one want to throw that away?
: Maitri,
: LeeLove@mill2.millcomm.com in St. Paul, MN
: P.S. Does this Unification organization have anything to do with Rev.
: Moon? I hope not.
Yes, Rev. Sun Myung Moon founded the Unification Church in 1954
in Seoul, Korea (not 1945 as someone else said).
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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00:08 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Argument with God
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.buddhism
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.buddhism
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Lee in PigsEye (leelove@millcomm.com) wrote:
: Sphere (williams@tiac.net) wrote:
: : How many religious wars have Buddhists started?
: (I'll play straight man.)
: No war has ever been waged in the name of Buddhism. Some Buddhist
: nations have gone to war, but they have always persecuted Buddhism first to
: diminish its influence.
Well, you could say the same about Christianity. Nobody has started
a war who was following in the spirit of Christ, since he taught
that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. He taught
people to turn the other cheek when struck. He forgave the people
who killed him rather than fight them with swords. People may use
the name of Christ, Muhammad, or some other religious leader to
wage a war, but they would be betraying the spirit of their founder
in doing so.
: Maitri,
: LeeLove@mill2.millcomm.com in St. Paul, MN
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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00:38 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: The M-word - "Moonie"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) wrote:
: >Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: >How
: >many members of the Unification Church do you know personally?
: none.
In this case, I suggest that you are opposing a movement based
on the ideas of others which means that you have no first hand
information on which to base a judgement of it. I would call that
prejudice.
: Your point is of course logical, i.e. that if you people do consider
: it negative, than it would be courteous not to use the word.
That is all I ask.
: >Having been a member of the Unification Church for 18 years, I
: >can assure you that members of the church do NOT like the term
: >"moonie". It reminds me of the times when people knocked me to
: >the ground and kicked me in the ribs and the head, and called me
: >that. It is certainly not a term of endearment, nor is it taken
: >as anything other than a slur.
: I have never heard of violance against your movement - could you
: please elaborate on that ? I do certainly not support violance
: against your movement, or against anything I call a "cult".
Well, I cannot give you specifics of every person, but I can tell
you that I have been beaten, spat on, ridiculed, held up at gunpoint,
knocked to the ground and kicked, arrested and put in jail without
charges, and so on. I know of one brother in Colorado who was robbed
and shot to death, I was in Paris shortly after a bomb was exploded
in our church, a friend of mine was stabbed while fundraising in
Lowell, Massachusetts, another, a woman, was jumped and beaten,
I was in Ipswich in England where a family had a brick thrown through
their living room window, our members in Czechoslovakia were imprisoned
and some even died for their faith, another was filming Soviet
atrocities in Arghanistan and was killed by a Russian helicopter
gunship, ... Rev. Moon himself was arrested, imprisoned, tortured,
sent to a North Korean concentration camp, starved, ridiculed in
the press worldwide ... need I go on?
You obviously have only been listening to one side of the story.
In first century Rome, many people hated and persecuted the
Christians and enjoyed seeing them being fed to the lions. They
did not know any Christians personally. Then they saw their courage
and grace in the face of danger and death, and wept as they saw
them sing praises to God as they were attacked and killed by the
wild animals. It was the attitude of such people of faith that
brought the people of the Roman empire to repentance. So also will
it be with the Unification Church which does not hate its detractors,
but only want to teach a higher standard through the example of
loving those who have made our life very difficult over many decades.
I can forgive you for not knowing, but now that you have the opportunity
to find out, you are culpable if you stay in ignorance.
: >: So how would you people like to be called in short ? U-nies ?
: >: Unificationists ? Members of his holiness Sun Myung Moon ?
: >
: >Unificationists. Thank you.
: Quite a long word...
You can handle it. Communists is a big word too, so is Unitarian
Universalist, or Presbyterian, or Roman Catholic. Hey, how about
"strassenbahnhaltestelle"? (That is "tram stop" for the non German
speakers). You have a way of handling big words just fine in
German. ;-)
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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00:58 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: Rev. Moon misquoted by Steve Hassan
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification,alt.religion.unification
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Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: ponzini@grove.ufl.edu (Thomas F DiLustro) wrote:
: >You may know him personally but does he know God? I am sorry to say but
: >after reading some of the many quotes attributed to Rev. Moon on Steve
: >Hassan's homepage, I would doubt that Rev. Moon is "a man of God. Tell
: >me if you deny that Rev. Moon believes that he is here to complete the
: >work of Jesus Christ, that Christ somehow failed in His mission, that
: >Rev. Moon is on a par with God Almighty?
I believe that Rev. Moon is here to complete the work left unfulfilled
by Jesus Christ. Jesus came to create the Kingdom of God on Earth,
and it is not here yet, so someone has to do it. Are you volunteering?
And yes, Rev. Moon is on a par with God and that is the destiny
of every human being, including you and me. Even Jesus taught that.
: >Or do you deny that Moon made the statements that are attributed to him?
I would say that the quotes of Rev. Moon are base on poor translations
of his words. If you really want to know what he said, I recommend
that you go to the tapes of what he said in Korean, none of this
was said in English, and translate it correctly. Now if you don't
know Korean, you are in no position to say authoritatively what
he said, and neither am I. If you were to quote Jesus Christ, it
would certainly help to know what he said in the original language.
Unfortunately, he taught in Aramaic, and that was then passed on
in Hebrew and Greek and finally got its way to English.
Now we don't have tapes and transcripts of Jesus' words, but we do have
those of Rev. Moon dating back to 1956. I have some of the early
books. There are 200 volumes (yes two hundred) of Rev. Moon's speeches
published in Korean, so you have plenty of other sources to go
to if you want to know what he teaches on a particular topic. You
can find many of them on the Unification Home Page (in 7 languages):
http://www.unification.net
Now, my guess is that Steve Hassan is not so interested in what Rev.
Moon actually said. His interest appears to lie in writing anti-cult
books and selling them. Is he not a professional anti-cultist?
It would appear that Rev. Moon is the best thing that ever happened
to Steve Hassan. He gets to go on TV and pontificate about Rev.
Moon and how terrible he and his movement are, yet his livelihood
depends on making Rev. Moon out to be the bad guy.
: The answer to be expected is that the quotes are "out of context".
: (The lawyer already says so). The out-of-context allegation is a
: common "poor debate" tool, and the "context" is usually to read
: all books to find out the "context".
I am no lawyer, and the quotes are of course taken out of context,
but that is not the point. You can retranslate the original words
and see what he said. I just don't want to attempt to justify something
that he may not even have said.
: A good response would say simply to explain the context in a few words,
: and to post one page before and after. (or a few minutes before
: and after).
You can just look elsewhere in his teachings and get a good feel
for what he actually teaches without having to rely on these isolated
quotes. You could make Jesus out to be pretty bad if you just took
a few selected quotes. For example, he taught that those who do
not love him more than husband, wife, mother, father, brother, sister,
are not worthy of him. By the standard you are applying, Jesus
would be a fear-evoking cult leader. His contemporaries thought
that too and that is why he was executed by a Roman leader intimidated
by a Jewish mob.
: Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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01:15 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: The M-word - "Moonie"
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification,alt.religion.christian
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Laszlo Weress (laszlozw@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: The term "moonie" was ALLWAYS used
: as a derogatory term, although I am not sure it's origin, but it was
: taken up by the media since the seventies. Since it is clearly not
: originated within the movement and that our "press" has been constantly
: negative the term could not be anything but a bigotted epithaph. I am
: curious why have you not responded to the first objection as you do
: know?
The term "moonie" was coined by the Washington Post, a very liberal
and influential newspaper in Washington DC, which now has the Washington
Times, founded by Rev. Moon, as a competitor. It was coined as
a term of derision, but many major media outlets are now aware
that it has pejorative overtones and no longer use it. The name
of choice among members of the Unification Church is "Unificationist".
Peter Jennings recently publicly apologized for using the term
on the popular TV show "Nightline."
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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01:41 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: Re: Let Us Become Chuin
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Thomas F DiLustro (ponzini@grove.ufl.edu) wrote:
: : DA> We know that we need to gain God's recognition as true children before
: : DA> we enter the spirit world. But before God can recognize us as His true
: : DA> child, we must pass through certain stages. First, we must be
: : DA> recognized as such by our brothers and sisters, then the good spirits
: : DA> in the spirit world must recognize us as true sons and daughters of
: : DA> God. Not only that, we must gain the recognition of Satan and evil
: : DA> spirits as well. Fallen people must also recognize us as children of
: : DA> God. Once we receive recognition on all these levels, Heavenly Father
: For the power of the Almighty to work WE must gain Satan's
: recognition????? This is a strange claim. Satan is the fallen one and
: "Rev" Moon courts danger if he subscribes to this false requirement.
: This is works mingled with the Lord's grace. It does not work this way
: Damian.
You must recognize that the nature of Satan is to be the accuser
of mankind. We see this in the book of Job. Satan mocked God and
said that the only reason that Job was righteous was that he was
blessed. So God allowed Satan to take away all Job's blessings,
and Job was still faithful and refused to curse God. Then Satan
had to admit that Job was indeed righteous and God was free to
bless him twice as much as He had before.
There is an important lesson to be learned here. The reason each
of us cannot come to God is because of Satan's accusation due to
our sin. If Satan, the arch enemy of God, has to admit that
you are righteous, then nobody in all heaven and earth can object
to God giving you His full blessing. Short of that, Satan will
always have a pretext to attack you. Jesus paid a ransom for us.
To whom? He paid it to the devil. Jesus gave up his physical life,
which Satan so much wanted to destroy. In return, all those who
believed in and obeyed Jesus could come to God without the accusation
of Satan, because Jesus had paid the ransom price. This free gift
is the Lord's grace. Whether we accept it is our responsibility.
However, if you sin, both God and Satan agree to whom you belong.
Sin is our declaration before God and Satan that we choose to belong
to Satan. Our life of faith and obedience is our declaration that
we belong to God. We are free to choose. However, because of weakness,
many, most people, vacillate between belonging to Satan and belonging
to God. This is the plight of the fallen human being. Though in
our inmost self, we desire to belong to God and do the will of
God, in our flesh, our body, we find another law of sin at war
with the the law of God, raging within ourselves. This is the reason
that we await the salvation of our bodies that Paul spoke of in
Romans 8:23. At the time of the second coming of Christ, God will
reveal a new salvation (1 Peter 1:5) which will empower us finally
to overcome sin and attain our true destiny, to become perfected
human beings in the image of God.
I testify to you that this salvation has been revealed by the person
of Sun Myung Moon, who has come to fulfill the providence of the
salvation of our bodies and the creation of the Kingdom of God
on Earth. This salvation takes place through the Blessing in marriage.
Through this, we are reborn into God's lineage. Through the love
and truth revealed now by Rev. Moon, all mankind will be able to
overthrow the dominion of sin over their lives and become God's
true sons and daughters, just as Jesus was God's true son. Rev.
Moon just completed a ceremony of Blessing of 400,000 couples
on August 25, 1995. The next such ceremony will be 3.6 million
couples, currently scheduled for 1998.
: Regards,
: Tom
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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01:49 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: Re: Let Us Become Chuin
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: Serious error: teaching to feel "God's church is our church"
: and assuming this will cause your church to become God's.
: Do you remember the teachings of saint Augustin I mentioned?
No.
: DA> viewpoint. God needs true children. Where else can He find them? God
: In Christianity, not in Unification.
So, Christians are without sin?
: DA> How could Christianity become a worldwide religion? How could they
: DA> develop to this state? They observed these four things; they attended
: DA> services, prayed, tithed and witnessed. Christianity couldn't have
: DA> survived without these four things. These four points are the minimum
: DA> condition for God to work. We say that we know God's truth more and
: These points are needed for humans organization, not for God.
You mean that Christians do not need to be active to do God's work?
Jesus taught us to go out to teach all nations. He taught us to
worship in spirit and truth. He taught us to serve. What you say
contradicts what he said.
: DA> We know that we need to gain God's recognition as true children before
: DA> we enter the spirit world. But before God can recognize us as His true
: DA> child, we must pass through certain stages. First, we must be
: DA> recognized as such by our brothers and sisters, then the good spirits
: DA> in the spirit world must recognize us as true sons and daughters of
: DA> God. Not only that, we must gain the recognition of Satan and evil
: DA> spirits as well. Fallen people must also recognize us as children of
: DA> God. Once we receive recognition on all these levels, Heavenly Father
: We already discussed this topic and you claimed the need of
: recognition from Satan was a mistake of beginner who didn't
: know Unification teachings well... Lie has short legs.
Your attitude is one of criticism and condemnation. Then you accuse
me of lying. Maybe you just don't understand what I say. Read my
follow up on this topic in another post. Just remember that you
catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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02:36 Oct 3, 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Argument with God
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Neal Horsley (LACL50A@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Damian sounds like a wise sage with an agenda beyond reproach.
You flatter me, but hey, I won't complain.
: Who could rightly oppose "unification?" BUT Damian makes no
: mention of the fact that there is only way to be restored to a
: right relationship with the Only True God.
Is this true? Did God reveal Himself through Abraham, Moses, Buddha,
Muhammad, Confucius, Lao Tzu, Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma
Ghandi, Sun Myung Moon? I think that He did.
: All the quotations Damian brings forth seem to imply that
: some kind of holy synthesis is possible and mankind can strain the truth
: from the torrent of "religious" words poured out through the ages.
I think that it is indeed possible to determine truth from meditating
and praying about the revealed words of history's great prophets
and sages. Jesus said that God wants worshippers who worship in
spirit and in truth. It is not enough to have the words of the
scriptures. One must seek God's divine guidance through prayer.
: Damian is invoking a pipe dream because the truth is not found in words;
: it is found in a person. A particular carpenter from Nazareth. The Naz.
I would not dispute that the highest revelation of God thus far
in history, until this age, was in the person of Jesus Christ.
He taught that "pipe dream" of the "Kingdom of Heaven" which tends
to be lost in the noise of "secure your place on the lifeboat to
heaven and let the others be damned". The Kingdom of Heaven is
like a mustard seed, which grows from one tiny seed to be a great
tree. So, from one man and woman can spring a world which is reconciled
to God. The new world must spring from a holy lineage, where all
people can be God's lineal descendents, as Jesus was. However,
that did not take place 2000 years ago, much as God and Jesus and
all the saints yearned for it. It was unfulfilled because the Kingdom
of God must be created first ON EARTH before it can be IN HEAVEN.
Jesus said that what is bound on earth will be bound in heaven.
It must happen first here, and then it is reaped in the world to come.
The cornerstone of the Kingdom of God is the FAMILY, and Jesus
showed us on model of the family as he did not marry.
: One can enter the Holy of Holies only through the curtain; that is, his
: flesh. Until Damian enters there, he will, in spite of all his great
: learning, be the blind leading the blind. Selah.
We become one flesh with the Lord through obedience to him. If
one is faithful to the spirit of the great world's religions,
one will be faithful to the spirit of Jesus, since the virtues
they taught were the same.
The Holy of Holies where God meets man and woman is in the marriage
bed of a union blessed by God. When sexuality is reconciled to
God, our children will be born without sin and naturally enter into
the Kingdom of God without need for a savior. For this reason,
we need the Blessing of God on our marriage, and the primary mission
of the second coming is to do just that. For this reason, Jesus
spoke of the marriage of the lamb, and those who are purified and
set apart for him on his coming.
Rev. Sun Myung Moon and his wife as the True Parents of mankind
are giving that Blessing of God now in these days of tribulation
where the false is being separated from the true, where the adulterers,
fornicators and homosexuals are being separated from those who
have kept themselves pure for God. The Day of Judgment is truly
at hand.
For those who have ears, let them hear.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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07:39 Oct 5, 1995
On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, LCS wrote:
> I liked your definition, but I've have many a conversation with a friend
> whos personal beliefs could be summed up as "You create your own reality",
> he would argue, followin your definition that the logical action would be
> to be selfish, to be evil, how would you respond.
Hi LCS,
His definition is a very self-centered one. The fact is that we were
created by God to exist in relationship with others, and that we fulfil
our true destiny and find happiness in loving and serving others. He may
think it is "logical" to be selfish and evil, but does one feel happiness
in the inmost core of one's being that delights in the law of God by being
evil and selfish? No. Your conscience and mine tell us that we find
happiness in doing good, and logic has nothing to do with it.
Furthermore, this idea that "you create your own reality" is based on the
illusion that only "I" exist and nobody else matters. That is the
ultimate form of egotism and self-centeredness. "Others" do exist, and
happiness lies in loving and being loved by those others. The one who
lives in the reality of his own making, not caring about others, is
living in a hell own his own creation.
> regards
> LCS
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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07:09 Oct 5, 1995
From damian@unification.netThu Oct 5 07:12:37 1995
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:11:50 -0400
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: one-world-com@webcom.com
Cc: OWC
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc,
alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: The OJ Acquittal
On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Lloyd Eby wrote:
> Lloyd on the OJ acquittal:
>
> I too have been thinking and talking deeply about the OJ
> trial and verdict for much of today. In what follows, I'll try to
> say what I've been thinking. I made the mistake of becoming
> emotionally involved in the outcome, so I was crushed when OJ was
> declared not guilty, and I had deep reactions to what happened.
Given the facts that (1) Mark Fuhrman found most of the evidence, (2) MF
was proven to have purjured himself (3) MF had made public statements that
he hated black people, (4) MF had made statements that he detested
inter-racial marriages, (5) MF bragged that he had concocted evidence in
the past (though the jury did not hear this, they could read it between
the lines), (6) MF had the opportunity and motive the plant evidence, I
would be unable to be sure BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT of O.J.'s guilt which
a criminal case requires, and I would have acquitted O.J. Simpson.
In addition, Lorton reformatory near Washington DC is full of blacks
convicted by black juries. An articles I read in the Washington Times
yesterday said that the one kind of case in which black juries do not
convict black suspects is when they doubt police witnesses.
> Lloyd Eby
> leby@nova.umuc.edu
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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11:07 Oct 5, 1995
Subject: Re: Rev. Moon misquoted by Steve Hassan
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <44tk5r$jhi@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> <44v4od$74a@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
TruthMindd (truthmindd@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <44tk5r$jhi@cutter.clas.ufl.edu>, ponzini@grove.ufl.edu (Thomas
: F DiLustro) writes:
: > Anybody who can command people to marry some
: >stranger is into mind control.
: But I have a friend whose parents are from Pakistan; she told me that her
: own parents met on the day of their wedding!
In many cultures in most of history, arranged marriage was the
norm. Did you ever see "Fiddler on the Roof" and hear the song
"Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match."? It was common in Jewish
culture for example, and is still today the norm in India. Who
has more successful marriages, the Americans or the Indians?
Anyway, you may as well get used to it. The next wedding in 1998
will be of 3.6 million couples, and in 2001 of 36 million couples.
I would say that Rev. Moon's ideas on marriage are a timely solution
to a grave problem throughout the world of the decline of the family
and the need for a new vision and theology on which to base the
sacred institution of the family. I will begin posting some of
his words on marriage and the family soon, as soon as I can get
them into electronic format, which takes some considerable effort.
: Rachel Inverness, TruthMindd@aol.com
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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11:33 Oct 5, 1995
Subject: The M-word - "Moonie"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <44aema$mcm$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> <44b7b7$rmf@zippy.cais.net> <812330562.27121@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <44frn3$64v@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <812402637.10707@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <44ifsg$mtm@zippy.cais.net> <812454505.20521@tilman.berlin.snafu.de>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: I don't know what the N-word has to do with it. I am certainly not a
: racist, and I have never used the N-word.
: Besides, you have still not explained why calling
: a follower of Mr. J. Christ a "christian" is not negative, but why
: calling a follower of Mr. S.M. Moon should be negative.
Take any offensive word in any language and you will find that
it is not the meaning or the etymology of the word that are offensive
but the WAY IN WHICH IT IS USED. The word "fuck" is a perectly
good Anglo-Saxon word referring to sexual intercourse, but it is
seen as offensive in polite company because of its usage, not its
meaning or etymology.
The word "nigger" comes from the latin adjective "negra" meaning
black. Well, to call someone black is not an insult, but to call
him "nigger" is. Well, you may say, "It only means "black", what's
the problem?" The word "nigger" has been used as a term of abuse
for a long time, so there is a history associated with the word.
The term "Moonie" was coined and used in a similar way.
If someone calls you a "Kraut", meaning that you are a German (who
happen to like eating pickled cabbage called sauerkraut) then I
can tell you that this is considered offensive in English. If the
President of the United States were to say that to the German Ambassador
to the USA, I can assure you that he would be insulted and that
it would be a breach of protocol. Now you could say, "What's the
problem? Germans like to eat sauerkraut, so why shouldn't we call
them Krauts?" Well the simple answer is that the word, by common
agreement, is used as a demeaning reference to a German. After
all, words only mean what people agree that they mean. That is
what language is. So, I can tell you that the common agreement
in the English language is that the word "Moonie" is an offensive
and demeaning way to refer to a member of the Unification Church
founded by Rev. Moon.
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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10:47 Oct 6, 1995
From damian@unification.net Fri Oct 6 10:43:38 1995
Status: O
X-Status:
Newsgroups:
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:43:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: one-world-com@webcom.com
Subject: Re: CUR Blessing Ecumenism
In-Reply-To: <199510061132.TAA12079@is2.hk.super.net>
Message-ID:
Fcc: sent-mail
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 6 Oct 1995 jegonzal@HK.Super.NET wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Oct 1995 Dan Fefferman wrote:
>
> >Recent talk on OWC about the Blessing and Original Sin has
> >prompted me to raise one of my old questions publicly.
> >
> >Does one need to believe in Original Sin in order for the
> >Blessing to work in removing it?
>
> I know of cases in the recent Blessing were couples do not
> understand or believe in the concept of Original Sin. Did they
> received the benefits of the blessing? I personally think that
> they did. Later in their lives or maybe in the spiritual world
> they will believe and will understand. Similarly they do not
> need to believe in electricity or in Thomas Edison in order to
> benefit from the light that illuminates their room. They just
> need to plug in and buy the lamp.
I would venture to say that very few of us truly understand the
value of the Blessing, maybe none of us do. However, as long as
we maintain the conditions under which it was given, we can benefit
from it. In particular, we pledge never to commit adultery and
never to divorce, and we now as a group strive to uphold the Family
Pledge. In the church, there are many gradations of commitment,
and no doubt that applies to those who receive the Blessing who
are not UC members. There are many people who receive the Blessing
of True Parents, such as the Grand Muftis who may well have a higher
personal standard than many UC members. So, the label "UC member",
is less important than "person who invests his whole self to do
God's will". As the World Scripture section on Practice and Learning
said in various ways, "It's not how much you know that counts,
it's how much you practice what you know."
There will be many Unificationists in the spirit world who will
say to Father "Father, Father, wasn't I a good Unificationist?"
and Father will say to them, "Get away from me, I never knew you."
To receive God's Blessing, we must BELIEVE AND OBEY. Father uses
the words "Absolute faith, absolute love and absolute obedience."
The UC member who pillories True Family and mocks those who attempt
to do God's will may well find themselves in the same kind of Hell
that the negative Christians will find themselves in.
A word of caution.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in English, French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese
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11:12 Oct 6, 1995
Subject: Re: Moon's arranged marriages
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <44tk5r$jhi@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> <44v4od$74a@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <450s4p$age@zippy.cais.net> <812918317.21417@tilman.berlin.snafu.de>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) wrote:
: >In many cultures in most of history, arranged marriage was the
: >norm. Did you ever see "Fiddler on the Roof" and hear the song
: >"Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match."? It was common in Jewish
: >culture for example, and is still today the norm in India. Who
: >has more successful marriages, the Americans or the Indians?
: It depends how you count. If you consider a few thousand girls
: burned alive each year because of dowry disputes, I'd say that
: US girls have a higher probability of *surviving* a marriage.
Well, I don't know about that. Ask Nicole Brown Simson's family
about that! I would say that there is a lot of domestic violence
in America, probably more than India, but then I don't know the
situation in India too well. However, I know that America has an
astronomical rate of divorce, adultery, homosexuality, AIDS, child
abuse, drug-related violence, and all kinds of pathologies associated
with the breakdown in the family. I doubt that the problem is as
bad in India. America is exporting its filth to the world through
Hollywood, so much so, that countries that like America's political
ideals shy away from adopting American culture because all the
filth comes with it.
There are dowry disputes in India, but if you count all those deaths,
how does that stack up to the murder rate in the USA?
: If you let the social pressure aside, of course marriages in countries
: where divorce is not socially accepted, India is probably better than
: the US.
Maybe there is some value in it.
: Your argument "others did it too" reminds me of a discussion I had
: with a co-worker from East Germany. I asked him "what did they say
: about that wall ?" and he said "Well other countries also have a wall,
: just visit the US-Mexican border".
Of course, just because others do something is no argument for
its inherent value, but if IT IS WORKING in other cultures, it
may be worth looking at.
: BTW, I do not know any culture where it is OK that only *one* marriage
: party is present at the wedding. I'd say Rev. Moon is very innovative.
What happened in those cases was that both parties were present
at the satellite ceremony in different parts of the world and could
not be together for whatever logistical reason, finances, visas,
whatever reason. And of course you are right, he is VERY innovative
in many areas.
: >Anyway, you may as well get used to it. The next wedding in 1998
: >will be of 3.6 million couples, and in 2001 of 36 million couples.
: >I would say that Rev. Moon's ideas on marriage are a timely solution
: >to a grave problem throughout the world of the decline of the family
: >and the need for a new vision and theology on which to base the
: >sacred institution of the family. I will begin posting some of
: >his words on marriage and the family soon, as soon as I can get
: >them into electronic format, which takes some considerable effort.
: Damian, I will save that post and present it to you in 1998 and 2001.
: How old is Rev Moon ? How is his health ?
Please do. He is 75 years old and works so hard that the 30-somethings
still cannot keep up with him. His normal schedule is to begin
the day with prayer at 5 am, then he works throughout the day until
midnight or 1 am. He has lived this way his whole life. If you
ever get to spend some time with the man, you will see that he
has an incredible level of energy. He and his wife are about to
embark on a 160 country speaking tour. Right now, they are in Korea,
and I believe that they are speaking on college campuses. Maybe
someone else on here could fill us in on the details.
Few people thought that he could pull off the 360,000 couples wedding,
and in fact it was more than 10 per cent larger than projected
with over 400,000 coules participating. It is open to previously
married couples who want to renew their vows and receive True Parents'
blessing on their marriage, and it is open to single people who
want to submit themselves to the matching process. Some 200,000
partipants came from Nigeria alone. There is one group in Africa
who are asking to have Rev. and Mrs. Moon's Blessing, and they
number one million people. Our evangelistic efforts in Africa and
Asia are booming.
: To help Moon to get his statistics up, here's the page to visit
: if you're still single:
: http://www.unification.net/misc/invitation.html
Tilman, are you married? :-)
: --- Tilman Hausherr
"Hausherr", is that like "House boy" in English?
: Praise Xenu! Praise Mozilla! Praise "Bob"!
Okay, who are these guys? I know Mozilla is a Web browser. Don't
you mean "XINU", a Douglas Comer invention?
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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