Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 7
Sep 9 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Hypocrisy
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Kevin W Davidson (soft-logik@cup.portal.com) wrote:
: Damian Anderson [in an article appearing on TALK.RELIGION.MISC] wrote:
: Well, I think that it's more the psychological profession which
: has called it an illness. Some significant parts ofhristianity still
: use the word "sin".
You are right that this concept of interpreting maladies as disease
rather than sin originates in psychology.
: >repeated sexual offenses, kleptomania, drug abuse, and so on. The
: >SIN is redefined as a DISEASE to take away MORAL RESPONSIBILITY.
: Actually, it is to identify appropriate treatment.
The TREATMENT for sin is REPENTANCE, not therapy.
: >Addiction of any kind is slavery to the flesh, and that is sin.
: Addiction cannot be both slavery and sin, for the slave is not
: free to choose. If there is no freedom to choose, there is no sin.
No, the slave to sin voluntarily of their own choosing gives up their
freedom to the lusts of the flesh. However, it is true that once
one sins, one becomes a slave. The only liberation for such a slave
is repentance and turning away from the behavior that enslaved
the sinner in the first place.
Paul in Romans 7:25 describes his sinful nature being a slave to sin:
"Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then,
I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful
nature a slave to the law of sin." (NIV)
He also says in 2 Cor 3:17 "Now this Lord is the Spirit, and where
the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." (JB)
This means that we can only be truly free when we live according
to God's law and according to the precepts of our conscience.
Repentance leads to freedom, liberation and peace of mind.
Sin leads to slavery, bondage and anxiety.
That is why we need so many shrinks in America, because America
has forgotten God.
: Kevin (soft-logik@cup.portal.com)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 9 1995
Subject: Re: Why did Jesus die, anyway?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Angelo Caiazzo (acaizz9) wrote:
: Greetings,
: Damian Anderson wrote:
: >Satan only has power because humanity gives it to Satan. When we
: >sin, we empower Satan. When we do God's will, we empower God. Satan
: >has power over this world because our first ancestors ceded their
: >power to him voluntarily without so much as a fight. To get that
: >power over His own children back again, God acts according to Principle
: >and persuades us, He does not use force. In this sense, Satan has
: >a right of ownership over human beings because our ancestors believed
: >his word rather than God's and made him lord and master, contrary
: >to God's will. The whole of human history has been a struggle between
: >God and Satan over the hearts and minds of human beings. One day
: >that struggle will be brought to a final conclusion, and people
: >will freely choose God. The one who brings that about is the Messiah.
: >
: >: jds
: This is, from the standpoint of an ominoptent God, total rubbish. Why not
: just destroy Satan and end this lunacy?
You could ask, Well, why doesn't God just destroy everyone and
everything and start again? God created us and then we turned
away from Him, and at the time of Noah, he regretted having created
humanity because they had become so wicked and violent and determined
to destroy them all (Gen 6:6). He decided to spare only one family
and to work His providence of salvation through Noah's family.
However, sin entered into Noah's family through Ham, and much of
the foundation that Noah laid was lost.
So, God already tried that and it did not solve the problem. He
destroyed all but one family.
Not only this, but if God destroyed ALL His creation and began
again because we became sinful, He would be admitting defeat. Also,
God is partially responsible for the world's condition since He
created it, even though He did no wrong.
What must happen is that humanity must FREELY choose to do good.
: Why not make every choice
: available one "good in the eyes of the Lord"? At minimum per
: Judaeo-Christian holy writ such a character of evil is necessary to the
: glorification of God.
This is not true. Evil does not glorify God, but mocks Him.
: This, or we are toys allowed to struggle with
: obstacles the deity himself creates for our distraction.
No, God created us as His objects of love, as His children, and
He is deeply grieved by the suffering of humanity. Still, he will
not take away our responsibility, and hence our dignity, to become
like Him, perfected in love, of our own free will.
1 John 4:17 says:
"Love will come to its perfection in us when we can face the day
of Judgement without fear; because even in this world we have become
as he is."
I look for this day to come soon, when all will become like God,
perfected in love.
: Let's Say We Give You God...Then What?
What do you mean?
: Angelo Caiazzo
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 10 1995
Subject: Re: How does a Christian guy meet a Christian girl outside of church
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
References: <419gev$8is@heidelberg.rutgers.edu> <42jbuj$nqf@heidelberg.rutgers.edu>
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Robert Keddie (keddie@delphi.com) wrote:
: Dude, i know what you mean.
: Its like you cant just go up to a beutiful girl in chuirch after
: service and say..."hey babe...you and me...together"...it seems
: awkward. It would be good to meet a woman at the same church in
: that u both know right off the bat you are in common ground.
: ..wheras out side the church...your never going to know unless
: u ask. There is a certain risk of rejection asking outside the
: church...but its either that or in the church. i see so many beautiful
: girls in church, buit what am i going to do? Nonew of them go to
: singles...a few do, but mostly old elderly people...drag! Its a tuffy!
Rev. Sun Myung Moon will find you a good wife. He just married
400,000 couples recently and he is planning the next big wedding
to be 10 times as big, within the next 3 years. But then, you need
to pledge eternal love to the woman he chooses for you and you
must maintain your sexual purity always, that is, always faithful,
never divorcing.
You have to be Mr. Right to get Ms. Right, and vice versa. Get
yourself right with God and the woman of your dreams will come
into your life.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 14 1995
From damian@unification.netThu Sep 14 23:24:57 1995
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:24:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Damian J. Anderson"
To: Adam
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Decision
On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Adam wrote:
> I read through much of the Unification web page and I am just curious as
> to one of the church's beliefs. The page said that all religions are
> sacred since they are inspired by God for a specific purpose. You are
> still Christian however. What I'm wondering is this: Do you see the
> adherents of non-Christian religions as having an equal chance at
> salvation upon death?
Rev. Moon teaches that BELIEVING in any religion, Christian or otherwise,
is not sufficient for salvation. Those who will be saved are those who
have inherited the love, the life and the lineage of God. So, we see that
Jesus repudiated people who were believers yet who did not do the will of
God. He said that on the Day of Judgement, he would say to them "Get away
from me, you evil-doers." The ones who received God's love and mercy were
those who were kind and loving to their fellow human beings.
> Also, do you accept the possibilities of certain
> doctrines of other religions to be true, such as the eastern idea of
> rebirth and karma?
The concept of karma corresponds to the Unification teaching on
INDEMNITY. You can read about that in the Divine Principle in the
introduction to part II, in the principles of restoration.
The doctrine of rebirth has different meanings in say Christianity and
Buddhism. Rebirth, for a Christian, is to be born again of Jesus and the
Hold Spirit. This is becoming adopted sons of God through the spiritual
parents, Jesus as father and the Holy Spirit as mother.
The idea of rebirth in Buddhism refers to reincarnation, I believe. The
Divine Principle teaches that this is a misunderstanding of how spirits
come back to earth to be restored. Please read the chapter in the Divine
Principle on Resurrection, for a more complete understanding of this.
> I am not in any way trying to doubt your ideas, but I
> am curious as to the Unification's view on these issues.
You are welcome to ask all the questions that you want. If they get to be
too many, I have a group of friends to whom I can field questions, so
ask away. :-)
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
You are most welcome.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 17 1995
Subject: Re: Moonies threaten owner of World Wide Web Page
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
References:
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Modemac (modemac@netcom.com) wrote:
: Here is a question for Mr. Anderson, the person responsible for
: forwarding many posts of "Universal Scripture" to this newsgroup:
: What is your opinion of the legal threats made against Steve Hassan for
: the quotes from Rev. Moon that he has on his Web page?
This is the first I have heard of it.
: I especially like the part that suggests Moon regularly engages in ritual
: sex with members of his congregation. That can be found at the bottom of
: this message.
It may be tittilating, but it is a lie. If anything, it reflects
on the accuser, rather than on the accused.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 17 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Hypocrisy
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
References: <144829@cup.portal.com> <145369@cup.portal.com>
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Kevin W Davidson (soft-logik@cup.portal.com) wrote:
: Damian Anderson [in an article appearing on TALK.RELIGION.MISC] wrote:
: >: >Addiction of any kind is slavery to the flesh, and that is sin.
: >
: >: Addiction cannot be both slavery and sin, for the slave is not
: >: free to choose. If there is no freedom to choose, there is no sin.
: >
: >No, the slave to sin voluntarily of their own choosing gives up their
: >freedom to the lusts of the flesh. However, it is true that once
: >one sins, one becomes a slave. The only liberation for such a slave
: >is repentance and turning away from the behavior that enslaved
: >the sinner in the first place.
: That sounds like repentance is something one can do on ones own.
Yes, it is. Why else would Jesus and many of the prophets call
on people to repent unless it was within their power to do so?
: >Repentance leads to freedom, liberation and peace of mind.
: Presuming that one has the freedom to repent.
Who is stopping you or me or anyone from repenting? It is a CHOICE
which we can all make.
: >Sin leads to slavery, bondage and anxiety.
: Yes.
: >That is why we need so many shrinks in America, because America
: >has forgotten God.
: And because some people demonize homosexuals (just as they demonized
: the mentally ill and lepers in Jesus' own time).
Homosexual sex is abominable and detestable to God. God loves the
sinner but hates the sin. We need to do likewise.
: Kevin (soft-logik@cup.portal.com)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 17 1995
Subject: Re: Reincarnation and Christianity
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
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Sy Luu (sluu@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: I understand that reincarnation was a belief existed in Christianity
: until sometimes during the first several centuries A.D. when it was
: taken out from the teachings. Does anyone know where I can find further
: information about this subject? Thank you in advance.
While I cannot give you any historical information on the belief
in reincarnation, I can point you to one modern interpretation
of the phenomenena which lead people to believe in it in the first
place. You can find this information on my Home Page under the URL:
http://www.unification.net/dp73/dp73-1-5.html
The section is entitled "Resurrection".
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 20 1995
On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Lloyd Eby wrote:
> > I have suggested the establishment of what I call 'Rev. Moon on the Net'
> > Series. This would be a number of short essays on a variety of topics,
> > in which two extreme points of view are examined, and then Father's point
> > of view is succinctly laid out.
>
> I'm generally in favor of this suggestion, with the caveat I expressed to
> BC some time ago: Who of us is qualified to say just what
> Father's view on any subject is? Especially since there is the N and
> not-N problem that I mentioned some months ago. (Admittedly, on some
> issues -- pre-marital sex, adultery, homosexuality, for example -- his
> view is quite clear.) Still, I think that doing as Juarez and William
> suggest would be quite useful.
I don't think that Father truly contradicts himself. Rather, the very
nature of truth is often best expressed in the form of paradox. e.g. The
one who would save his life will lose it, the one who would lose his life
will find it. Father speaks in such a way that you will not understand
the deep nuances of what he says without following what he says over a
period of time. Discovering truth is our responsibility, and Father
presents different aspects at different times which MAY APPEAR to
contradict what he said before. However, the nature of truth is that it
is self-consistent. My attitude is to assume that Father has a reason for
everything he says, and then I try to discover the deep meaning behind what
he is saying. I read Father's words every day, and I found that this has
enriched me more than almost anything I have ever done.
In a speech I read some time ago, Father said that the MOST DIFFICULT
scriptures of a religion always advance it the most, because people cannot
understand it with their rational mind, so they have to use other
faculties to comprehend it. That is why Jesus said that we must worship in
spirit and in truth. It is not enough to read, one must also pray and
sometimes do extraordinary things to discover the truth. Father spent nine
years doing just that. We cannot inherit truth or tradition, or True
Parents' victory without paying the price.
> A potentially useful outcome: As all of you are well aware, many critics
> of Unificationism and of SMM assume that Unification members are all
> brainwashed idiots. One of the best ways of demonstrating that this claim
> is false would be to have Unification members publicly discussing issues
> in Unification doctrine and practice and disagreeing with one another.
In this case, I propose that we create a Usenet newsgroup entitled
alt.religion.unification. Then we, and our critics, can talk to our
hearts' content about unificationism, and our dialogue, good and bad, will
be the world's window on us. This will solve the problem of expense for a
mailing list, it will be a natural witness, since people will come across
it unawares, and many ex-members will be able to find their friends and
acquaintances there. Also, we can share news of events in the church, and
whatever else we do on here. It would be a way to reach out to the world.
Many new people came to the Blessing who may be eager to hear about
Unificationism on the Internet. International members will be glad of this
opportunity to inherit from those who worked with Father for twenty and
more years. Many students are online and looking for something of value.
A Unificationist discussion, representing True Parents' vision and
ideology to the world, will be a thing of great value.
I have been reluctant to suggest this in the past, as I was not sure that
I wanted to world to see us fighting as has been the case on this list.
But I believe that the very fact that we know that the world is reading
and listening will put a damper on the extremes that we have seen on this
list. We can also have the newsgroup gated to a mailing list, similar to
how soc.religion.bahai is set up. I could talk to the moderator there to
see how it is done.
> The downside might be that no one listening in would be able to figure
> out just what Unification doctrine and practice are. But then, OWC already
> demonstrates that *we* quite often do not have any clear idea of just what
> they are, and we're supposed to be informed members! And, as we've seen
> from posts here in the last few days, even the most central members --
> the 36 original couples -- seem frequently to disagree about all this.
I think that we need to back up our arguments with references to Father's
words, if we want to claim that we know what he teaches. Father is the
authority on Unification teaching, so if there is a dispute, refer to the
word.
> (And I think a central *requirement* for such a group would be the
> participation of Martin; he does more to advance the arguments and
> discussions here than any other single individual, I think!)
After the message yesterday about how Mother would not stop a verbal
attack on True Family as restoration was going on, I now conclude that all
this talk has value, and think that everyone should be welcome. Father
does not approve of leaders kicking people out of the church. He wants all
people to be restored. The mission of the Messiah is to digest all the
evil in the world and turn it into goodness. So, we as the tribal messiahs
have a big job to launder all the evil elements in the world and make them
as new. Whatever resentment Cain has must be digested and restored
through Abel's sacrificial love for him.
> Lloyd Eby
> leby@nova.umuc.edu
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 21 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Cultivate the Good
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
References: <43jvue$gi6@sundog.tiac.net> <43m965$prg@zippy.cais.net> <1741EA778S86.RJEWETT@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
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Randy Jewett (RJEWETT@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu) wrote:
: In article <43m965$prg@zippy.cais.net>
: damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) writes:
: >Jim Williams (williams@tiac.net) wrote:
: >: Hi,
: >: I just thought I'd tell you that I stopped reading your posts a while ago.
: >: Too many words, too little heart.
: >Well, Jim, I'm sorry to hear that, but I have had so many positive
: >comments that I figure that those who want to read them will, and
: >will enjoy them, and those who don't want to read them can ignore them.
:
: I used to ignore them, but now i read the Buddhist parts with glee
: since they are the only parts that seem to make sense.
Hey, Randy, that is a definite improvement coming from you. :-) I know
that when you first saw them, you were very much against my posts.
Fortunately, in His wisdom, God revealed himself through many religious
leaders, among them, the Buddha, Prince Siddhartha. Now, if you
find that the teachings of the buddha bring you to be a good person
and lead a better life in love and service to others, do you think
that God is going to complain? Is that same God who revealed to
Jesus that we should love our enemies, or who revealed to Muhammed
that He is the all merciful and all-powerful, I don't think He
is going to mind.
: Could you please add more Dhammapada quotes, Damian?
Sorry, but I cannot claim credit for the World Scripture, so I
will not be adding any quotes. It was written by a team of 40 scholars
representing the world's religions who attended a conference of
the Assembly of the World's Religions, organized by the Inter-Religious
Federation for World Peace. The IRFWP was founded by Rev. Sun Myung
Moon. He has an interest in promoting world peace through inter-religious
dialogue and understanding. If you would like the names of the
scholars involved, check out the World Scipture on my Home Page at:
http://www.unification.net/ws
and the list of advisors and contributors at:
http://www.unification.net/ws/wsadvise.htm
: I know! Why don't you put the quotes from
: th different religions in alphabetical order?
I am considering putting a search facility on the WS web page, but
I have to figure out how to do that.
But how do you alpabetize a quote. An index may work better, such
as the Bible search software one can buy off the shelf. I have
software which will look up verses in the Bible by verse, or by
word. I would like to do that with the WS, and with other texts
that I have online. If anyone knows of tools to do this, please
let me know.
: Yeah, that's th ticket! Then
: we Buddhists could be no. 1, and wouldn't have to sift thru all the
: Christianity, Judaism, Jainism, Hinduism, Mormonisms, an Unificationisms
: to find the jewels in the lotuses.
I find the teachings of the Buddha to be most enlightening, but
then I also find the teachings of other religions to be so too.
: How's that for a positive suggestion
: Damian? May you have happiness and the cause of happiness.
Thank you for your positive words and suggestions. And may the
creator and parent of us all bless you richly too.
: rj
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 22 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Self Control
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
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Jim Williams (williams@tiac.net) wrote:
: This topic -- Self Control -- is the focus of Buddhism.
: The way you are presenting scripture doesn't make this clear. All
: it does is bind the branches. Trees become one at the root -- not
: the branches.
I agree with you that binding the branches does not bring unity.
The Christian perspective is that all must be reborn from a common
root, the Messiah, which is a process of engrafting into the existing
rootstock which has its roots in God. The Unification perspective
teaches that this root is the Messiah and his bride who come in
these days who represents the fulfilment of every religion.
: I don't like what you are trying to do!
Then maybe we will have to agree to disagree.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 25 1995
Subject: New group to discuss Unification faith
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Summary:
Keywords:
Hello everyone,
I just created this newsgroup alt.religion.unification so that
there can be a forum for the discussion of the religious teachings
of Rev. Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church, and
many organizations dedicated towards the fulfilment of his religious
vision for the world.
It is my sincere hope that Unificationists and people interested
in the activity and faith of the Unification Church and the life
and teachings of Rev. Sun Myung Moon can find this a useful forum
for discussion.
For more information on the Unification Church and its activities,
please refer to the Unification Home Page listed in my signature.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 25 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Self Control
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
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Jim Williams (williams@tiac.net) wrote:
: damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) wrote:
: >Jim Williams (williams@tiac.net) wrote:
: >
: >: The way you are presenting scripture doesn't make this clear. All
: >: it does is bind the branches. Trees become one at the root -- not
: >: the branches.
: >
: >I agree with you that binding the branches does not bring unity.
: >The Christian perspective is that all must be reborn from a common
: >root, the Messiah, which is a process of engrafting into the existing
: >rootstock which has its roots in God. The Unification perspective
: >teaches that this root is the Messiah and his bride who come in
: >these days who represents the fulfilment of every religion.
: I cannot figure out what this statement means.
: I don't understand the concept of Messiah, therefore I cannot follow
: this concept of a "bride."
The Messiah is the person who begins a new history separate from
evil, a new history of goodness. Jesus came to do that, but he
was thwarted by the faithlessness of the people who were prepared
to receive him. He was supposed to marry a literal bride, a woman,
and have a family and descendents. The kingdom of God is a world
where all people are of the same quality as Jesus, one in heart
and love with God, sinless individuals, sinless families, sinless
nations, a sinless and perfected world.
: Are you saying that the Unification perspective is here to fullfill
: the Christian dream of a dominion?
The Unificationist perspective is that the Messiah comes to build
the Kingdom of God literally on the Earth, and that he comes with
the power of God and converts the whole world to believe and follow
his way of life.
: Sphere.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 25 1995
Subject: Re: Why did Jesus die, anyway?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.religion.unification
References: <435eds$ji1$1@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> <4376eg$t7q@globe.indirect.com> <43cq7b$9mh@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu> <43lakd$la7@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca> <43q7qo$k1h@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu>
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Laurence Mailaender (6500lem@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu) wrote:
: In article <43lakd$la7@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca> tgosche@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca (Tom Gosche) writes:
: >6500lem@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Laurence Mailaender) wrote:
: >>Richard, does it occur to you that if Jesus is God incarnate,
: >>then man has not atoned for anything. God has sacrificed himself
: >>to himself, which is non-sense. Only a human Jesus can be a
: >>sacrifice on the behalf of mankind.
: >>-Laurence
This is one very good reason for saying that Jesus was not God
Himself, but a being distinct from God.
: >Laurence,
: >With their first sin, Adam and Eve "polluted" themselves, (their
: >souls) and the Garden of Eden. Previous to this sinning, they were
: >perfect humans made in the image of God.
No, they were not perfect, or they would not have sinned. They
were without sin, but immature. They sinned because they had a
sexual relationship without the blessing of God. Their eyes were
opened before it was time.
: >The consequences of the first sin, were separation from God and
: >subsequent spiritual and physical degradation of the human body and
: >soul. All later humans would be the offspring of these flawed parents.
: >No later human being would be capable of bridging this gap that was
: >now between heaven and earth.
We all inherited Satan's lineage of sin from our first ancestors.
To be part of God's lineage, we have to be born anew through the
Messiah who starts a new lineage.
: No, according to God himself. In Deuteronomy, God says he
: punishes the offspring of sinners to the *third or fourth
: generation*. He never punishes an entire race for the actions
: of one or two (which would be immoral).
: "For, I, the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing the
: children for the sins of the father to the third and fourth
: generation of those who hate me." Deut. 5:9
Whether we are punished or not, we bear the CONSEQUENCES of their sin.
: As to bridging the gap, atonement with God is always possible.
: Why didn't Adam sacrifice an animal as a atonement. That was
: acceptable to God later in history. It was God who did not reveal
: this to Adam. So God again appears cruel, immmoral, and petulant.
Adam was unworthy to sacrifice to God because he was the one who
had broken God's heart and had been the author of sin, along with Eve.
So God separated Adam symbolically into good and evil through his
sons, Cain and Abel. They sacrificed to God, and Abel's sacrifice
was pleasing to God, Cain's was not. Cain had to know that "the
elder must server the younger" and should have humbled himself
before Abel who had been accepted by God. However, instead of
humbling himself to his brother, Cain killed him, compounding the
sin which his parents had committed. However, it may have been
that Abel was arrogant about being accepted by God and Cain being
rejected, so he could have provoked Cain's anger.
: I don't need to atone for Adam's sin, because I cannot be held
: accountable for it. God only punishes to the 3rd or 4th generation.
Each central figure of God's providence was in the position to
atone for Adam's sin and to prepare the way fior the coming of
the Messiah, but each one only fulfilled partially what God expected
of him.
: Your story is the Pauline one. It did not exist prior to Paul;
: it can't be traced to the OT. Paul is wrong because he contradicts
: prior scripture.
Paul in some places does contradict Jesus, such as when he says
that we are saved only by faith. Jesus said that on the last day,
we will be judged by how we treated our fellow human beings.
: >God chose to reconcile us to Himself, by bridging the gap and paying
: >the bills for our follies. There is no way that we could ever do this
: >ourselves. God became man, to pay the debts of man. Jesus was fully
: >God and fully (PERFECT) man.
: But God-Man is not a man. An incarnate God pulling the strings
: of the puppet Jesus atones for nothing.
Jesus was a true man, the first exemplar for all of us to emulate.
It is only because he was distinct from God that his obedience
and example had value.
: Man could not take the atoning step. God did. Thus God atoned
: to himself (which is nonsense) and man did nothing.
That is only if you accept the aforementioned theology, which I
consider erroneous.
: Paul was more consistent that you are. Paul held the "lamb of
: God" theology, but he believed in a purely human Jesus who
: was only raised up to God after his death. There is no
: incarnation theology in Paul's early letters.
Jesus was a divine human, the way God wants us ALL to be.
: >Jesus " loved" the Father perfectly, through his life and through
: >death and back to life again. Death (sin) could not hold him because
: >He lived our life supremely.
: Yeah. One part of God loves another part of God as a Father loves
: a Son. So your God is a narcissist; he loves himself.
God and Jesus are distinct. God loving Jesus is loving someone
other than Himself.
: >All fall short of heaven, unless we have faith in Jesus Christ our
: >Lord and Savior.
: Why don't you call him God if that is what you believe?
: It is revealing that Christians call him Lord and saviour, which
: is not the same as calling him God. There is only one God, which
: is the Father.
I agree. There is only one God.
: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE
: GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" John 17:3
: Read your Bible. Those teaching you haven't.
: -Laurence
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 25 1995
Subject: Re: Why did Jesus die, anyway?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
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Laurence Mailaender (6500lem@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu) wrote:
: In article bt492@freenet.buffalo.edu (Rabbi Barry S. Bank) writes:
: >2. Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ is, by definition, a
: >Christian and not a Jew. A Jew who belives in Jesus is a
: >contradiction in terms.
: During the first century, you could believe in Jesus the
: Messianic King and be a perfectly acceptable Jew.
Weren't the 12 apostles and 70 elders and the 120 in the upper
room at Pentecost all Jews? There was no concept at the time of
another faith called "Christian". That only came later as they
were severely persecuted by the Jewish people around them and the
Romans.
: -Laurence
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 25 1995
Subject: Re: Assemblies of God--A cult??
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian,alt.religion.unification
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BEAR (so1529@cub.uca.edu) wrote:
: I have been reading scattered reports in newspapers and magazines
: inferring that the Assemblies of God are a cult and being
: investingated as such.
: Could someone please enlighten my on the who, what, where, how, and whys?
Well, really! Who is authorized to say what is a cult and what
isn't? The disciples of Jesus were regared as a hated sect and
fed to the lions. In the eyes of the Romans, they were a despicable
cult. So, what matters? Is it the view of jealous Christians or
angry secularists towards a religion, or is God's viewpoint what
matters? If a religion is teaching people to deny the fleshly desires
and to live by the conscience, that part of us which delights in
the law of God which resides in our inmost self, then it is of
God, no matter what anyone says. Now, the AOG? I have no idea.
But I object to the cult label, since it is usually applied to
the spiritually alive groups by the spiritually dead groups! :-)
: Thanks!
: Bear (so1529@cub.uca.edu
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 26 1995
Subject: Re: Did Judas do the will of God
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian,alt.religion.unification
Approved: God@heaven.org
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Christopher Murphy (CMurphy@megaweb.com) wrote:
: This is my question: Was Judas turning over Jesus to his
: enemies a sin or the will of God?
Well, Jesus said that it would have been better for that man if
he had not been born. (Matt 26:24) It was most certainly a grievous
sin to betray Jesus.
: Chris Murphy
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 26 1995
Subject: Re: definition of evil
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
References: <42kk42$rku@bsdi.data.net.mx> <8kItA9200iVEQ8cngR@andrew.cmu.edu> <43skq0$6jb@hptemp1.cc.umr.edu>
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I could offer a very simple definition of good and evil.
Good is an action benefiting others even if it involves sacrificing the self.
Evil is an action benefiting the self even if it involves sacrificing others.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 26 1995
On Sun, 24 Sep 1995, RON MCLACHLAN wrote:
> Too long has the 'dirt of misapprehension and mistaken interpretation'
> been swept under the carpet of 'you are Cain and must do as I (your
> CF) dictate' .....
This idea that a central figure has the right to order people around
because he is the leader is ABSOLUTELY CONTRARY to the Principle and to
Father's tradition, notwithstanding the fact that in various places at
various times, it has been widely practiced. I want to make it crystal
clear that this has NEVER been the approved leadership style that Father
has either taught or exemplified. Jesus' standard was that the one who
wanted to be the leader had to be the servant of others. Father's
standard is to go "with the heart of the Father shedding sweat for earth,
tears for Heaven and blood for man." (or something along those lines).
Father's standard is to work constantly, almost like a mad-man, without
ceasing, forgetting food, sleep and sex, like a parent crazed about the
loss of his children, out of his mind with grief over God's suffering. The
true tradition of True Father is seen in his attitude in Hung Nam where he
won disciples without words, by his love. But then, once out of prison, he
taught until late into the night, wanting to resurrect the people and
bring new life to them. He prayed and taught in tears, bringing the
audience to tears of repentance. I have copies of those speeches on my
Home Page and on paper. They are a very moving testimony to the
spirituality of Father as a young man. He was a man deeply connected to
God's han, to the grief of Jesus, to our absolute need as fallen people
for repentance, purification, renewal, regeneration, becoming an offering
before the altar of heaven. He was a fireball of love and passion and
righteousness. It is a LIE that we cannot be like him. We can if we are
willing to invest as he did. But to do that, you may have to go the way of
suppressing the body, working in an altered state of devotion to God's
will, leaving the mundane and evil status quo behind to follow a higher
calling. We can all do that, but it takes supreme effort, and a heart of
gratitude for all hardship and NO COMPLAINT.
With regard to Father's attitude about teaching his words, I would like to
quote from a speech that he had Dr. Tyler Hendricks read at morning
service on November 27 1994 where I was present. The speech is entitled
"Central Figure of Victory" from November 23, 1975. Here is the quote:
"Your machine gun is right here: it's your mouth. Your ammunition is the
truth. Fire the truth, 24 hours a day. Your eyes, your entire focus,
should be upon the target. What if you fire 1,000 rounds and still the
enemy in not conquered? We will not surrender; we will fire 10,000 rounds
if necessary, then 20,000, 50,000, 100,000 rounds. If the victory still
is not won, if the enemy does not surrender, then you throw your entire
body like a bomb. Correct? [Yes!!]"
This I take as my mandate to proclaim Father's words on the Internet. I
don't care what the church members say, because I trust Father above any
member or leader in the church. I don't need the approval of brothers and
sisters for this, though of course it helps. Besides, my conscience says
that it is right, and I trust my conscience. Remember Lee Shapiro. He was
criticised by the members because he was doing something out of the
ordinary, making movies of Soviet atrocities in Afghanistan, yet when he
died at the hands of the Soviet Army, Father accorded him the highest
honor, saying that we should all be taking initiative like that to spread
the truth. Such men are true heroes, and are not dependent on the approval
of the rank and file. What the UC needs is a few good men and women of
COURAGE, willing to stand up and do God's will, no matter what! Each of
us has our calling. Let's do it!
> regards
> ron
>
> ron mclachlan
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 27 1995
Subject: Re: MOON RUN THE GUN-PLANT
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
References: <44aema$mcm$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com>
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In article <44aema$mcm$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> RITSUKO
KUWAMURA (100476.1421@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
: I read your article at the Newsgroup, referred to cults.
: I want to get information about "Moonies".
: Especially, the dark activities in the South America.
: I am told by some members that Moonies'company run a gun plant
: allegedly in Mexico. After a few months, I will report Moonies'
: activities of the South America to the monthly magazine in Japan.
: I have many rough documents, if possible, I'd like to the document
: in details.
: Please send me information,or give me advice!
: Please told me how to access these materials!
: Thank you so much.
: MS. RISTUKO KUWAMURA (100476,1421@compuserve.com),
: (KN622742@copernicus.or.jp)
: MR. KAZUO TAKAYAMA (HCE01010@niftyserve.or.jp)
If you want information, subscribe to Unificationist publications,
and read Rev. Moon's speeches. He will tell you what you need to
know. I have much of this material online, some of it in Japanese,
on the Unification Home Page. See the signature below for details.
Rev. Moon recently met with 8 heads of state in South America.
He is a man a man of God with substantial financial resources who
is offering the South American peoples help to revive their spiritual
and material well-being through education of their young people.
He was very well received and has bought millions of acres of land
in at least four countries, Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina and Uruguay.
He is the largest single foreign investor in Uruguay.
Also consult the Association for the Unification of Latin America
founded by Rev. Moon, or the Summit Council for World Peace for
more information. You can reach SCWP at 202-223-1498 in Washington DC.
Also there is a new Usenet newsgroup which I just created which
will deal with Unification Church teaching and practice. It is
alt.religion.unification.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 30 1995
Subject: Re: Washington Times Bush Interview: Excerpt.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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George Tirebiter (tirebiter@nwu.edu) wrote:
: Well, this is reassuring. An interview with a whore in the whorehouse
: newspaper telling us that the pimp isn't such a bad guy.
Now why would you be calling George Bush a whore, really? This
sounds like distinctly sour grapes on your part. The Unification
Church has had a very bad rap for a very long time, and unjustly
too. Certain people can't stand that this status quo is changing,
and fast. Well, Rev. Moon is being vindicated on the world stage.
He was welcomed by 8 heads of state in South America in June and
July of 1995, and will visit 160 countries in the next year or
so, and you can call each head of state names if you want to.
Nevertheless, his vision for the world, for society, for the family,
is BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY, because it is a very noble vision. His
critics have mocked and ridiculed him for 50 years as he has steadily
built a rock-solid foundation that is not going to go away. The
testimony of his deeds speaks a lot louder than the flim flam artists
who hurl abuse at him. They will be remembered by history as the
opponents of a great positive change for humanity, while Rev. Sun
Myung Moon will be seen as the greatest hero of the 20th century,
a great teacher for the new millennium. Maybe you need to start
looking at what he is teaching rather than just attacking the man.
Rev. Moon brought together 40 former and current heads of state
for the Summit Council for World Peace Conference in Seoul, Korea,
which occurred at the same time as the 400,000 couples wedding
in August 1995. You may suggest that he bought off one head of
state, but 40 of them? People of that caliber do not do things
just for money. George Bush supports what the Women's Federation
for World Peace is doing towards the cause of peace and reviving
the family BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN IT.
: Damian, you moonies now have your own newsgroup. Why don't you go there?
: How can we miss you when you won't go away?
Yes, I know. I created the newsgroup, and this article appeared
in that newsgroup, alt.religion.unification.
And for your information, I don't like the term "moonies" any more
than a black man likes the N-word.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 30 1995
To: tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr)
Subject: Re: MOON RUN THE GUN-PLANT
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
In article <812416721.14424@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: On Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:41:20 -0400, you wrote:
: >"Tilman" sez:
: >
: >: "Moonie" is not negative. It simply indicates a follower of Sun Myung
: >: Moon. Of course, I understand that people consider this as libel
: >: to be associated with that guy.
: >
: >: What will be next in your mind ? Will "Christians" object of being
: >: called so ?
: >
: >: ROFL
: >
: >
: >Yeah! (arf! snicker! guffaw!)
: >
: >After all, those "Jews" didn't really complain about what they were
: >called, especially after they all got gassed! Ha! Ha! hee! hee!
: >
: >You're a funny guy Tilly.
: >
: >You really kill me; don't ever change.
: >
: >Mike Sebold
: >msebold@mtolympus.ari.net
: >Bowie, MD, USA
: I don't get your point. Do you think I'm funny or do you think I'm a
: nazi-like guy because I explained that for itself, "moonie" is not any
: more libelous than "christian" ? (Altough I consider one of the two a
: dangerous cult)
Okay, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt, since you're German,
I presume. But in America, and in the English speaking world,
the term "moonie" is as much a pejorative as the words "nigger",
"spik", "kike", "hymie", not necessarily because of their etymology
so much as the history of their use as terms of abuse and their
association with violence and bigotry. So, if you don't want to
be called a bigot, don't use the term. And hey, I have nothing
against Germans, my mother is one.
: So decide. Praise me or insult me :-)
I have no use for insults, but you don't deserve any praise either.
: --- Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 30 1995
Subject: Re: definition of evil
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
Followup-To: talk.philosophy.misc,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
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Rainer Dickermann (rainerd@kaa.informatik.rwth-aachen.de) wrote:
: damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) writes:
: :I could offer a very simple definition of good and evil:
: :Good is an action benefiting others even if it involves sacrificing the self.
: :Evil is an action benefiting the self even if it involves sacrificing others.
: :Simply put, good is selflessness, evil is selfishness.
: :Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
: Hm, I think this is far too simple!
: With this definition it would be rational for each being
: to be evil, because nobody wants to suffer or being sacrificed.
: IMO Evil is the existence or increase of the phenomenon of
: suffering, no matter who is suffering.
So, according to your definition, if I suffer voluntarily, in the
striving towards a goal of my own choosing, that is evil? Now,
one might consider the suffering evil if I FORCED IT on someone
else. But if I CHOOSE it, for whatever reason, either for some
future gain, or for the sake of a higher ideal, then it is not
evil. People have suffered and died horrible deaths to uphold an
ideal. If they CHOSE it, then I don't think their choice was evil,
even if the person who inflicted the pain on them did evil.
: So, an evil act is
: any act that would increase or sustain the suffering of any
: being, no matter who would benefit there of or not. So,
: planting the roots of evil for a short benefit will sooner
: or later consume the planter, since suffering is the result of
: a condition beings are living in, it is irrational and stupid
: to do evil deeds.
I think that you are looking at the immediate situation rather
than the long term. It is like saying that remodelling the house
is evil because there is a mess. However, the mess is temporary
and the end result is better than what we had to start with. I
think it wholly worthwhile to endure some short term suffering
for the sake of an ideal to be furthered by that action. Some call
it folly, I call it altruism.
: This kind of selflessness that realizes that this `self` is not
: an isolated entity but a part of the whole, this is the real good.
: IMHO!
Yes, what benefits the whole is good indeed. What benefits ONLY
the self is either a lesser good, or it is an evil if it harms
the whole. From this standpoint, divorce is an evil, because although
the individual may be happier, the abandoned spouse and children
will be hurt. Then, because the family is hurt, the society is
hurt, which makes it yet a greater evil. For the same reason, promiscuity
and homosexuality which undermine the family structure in the society
are inherently evil.
: Rainer
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 30 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Argument with God
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism
References: <44jpd4$emt@news.MillComm.COM>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Distribution:
Lee in PigsEye (leelove@millcomm.com) wrote:
: Hey Damian,
: Would you mind not spamming a Buddhist news group with these long
: posts that have no mention or reference to Buddhism in them? Please use
: some Theistic self control. (;^)
Hey Lee,
I have a lot of people tell me that they first read my posts on
talk.religion.buddhism and asked if they could subscribe to the
mailing list, so I guess they must be popular. If you don't like
them, don't read them, or killfile them. But don't stop others
who find them valuable from reading them.
: Maitri,
: LeeLove@mill2.millcomm.com in St. Paul, MN
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 30 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Argument with God
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism
References: <44jpd4$emt@news.MillComm.COM> <44jrsu$ksc@sundog.tiac.net>
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Jim Williams (williams@tiac.net) wrote:
: leelove@millcomm.com (Lee in PigsEye) wrote:
: >Hey Damian,
: >
: > Would you mind not spamming a Buddhist news group with these long
: >posts that have no mention or reference to Buddhism in them? Please use
: >some Theistic self control. (;^)
: >
: >Maitri,
: He's just busy tieing the trees branches together, and thinking that
: somehow by this he will get the trees to grow together into one.
Well, if there were a little more mutual understanding between
devotees of the various religions in this world, perhaps we would
see fewer wars based on religion, such as those in Northern Ireland,
Bosnia, the Middle East, India, and so on. If believers in the
various world religions can forgive, love and unite, then maybe
the politicians and the armies can stop fighting too. Just a thought
(whose time has come).
: Sphere.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 30 1995
Subject: Re: MOON RUN THE GUN-PLANT
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification
References: <44aema$mcm$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> <44b7b7$rmf@zippy.cais.net> <812330562.27121@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <44frn3$64v@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <812402637.10707@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <44hidj$gf9@ari.net> <812416721.14424@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <44igbs$mtm@zippy.cais.net> <812446847.19415@tilman.berlin.snafu.de>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Distribution:
Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: I seriously doubt that the N-word can be seen equal to the M-word,
: but I won't use it in this forum until I get my point of view
: confirmed by a respected person (by me).
Thank you. I appreciate your consideration. You cannot ask an opponent
of the Unification Church how a Unificationist wants to be addressed
any more than you can ask a racist white person how a black person
wants to be addressed. If enough Unificationists object to the
M-word, maybe you will realize that it is distasteful to us. How
many members of the Unification Church do you know personally?
Having been a member of the Unification Church for 18 years, I
can assure you that members of the church do NOT like the term
"moonie". It reminds me of the times when people knocked me to
the ground and kicked me in the ribs and the head, and called me
that. It is certainly not a term of endearment, nor is it taken
as anything other than a slur.
: So how would you people like to be called in short ? U-nies ?
: Unificationists ? Members of his holiness Sun Myung Moon ?
Unificationists. Thank you.
: Tilman Hausherr
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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