Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 6
Aug 19 1995
Subject: Re: Rev. Sun Myung Moon - My Life of Faith
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: Hello, Damian
: I looked into your article containing Moon's speech and found Moon
: doesn't ever know what faith is.
Maybe you don't know what faith is. This is like the grasshopper
saying that the man is a dwarf. You are the dwarf, not Rev. Moon.
: Maybe some example can explain it
: for you. About year ago large group of people needed to get up early
: at 4:10 a.m. (and it was very important for them) and few of them
: who were responsible for waking others said they have a problem just
: this day because the group is far away from other groups and no one
: will come and wake them; they had one alarum-clock but they weren't
: sure it will wake them. What to do? I said them I will wake them all
: at proper time, and I asked God to wake me up early enough.
: They proposed me to use their alarum-clock but I said I don't need
: it - God will wake me up. Later every day they needed to get up
: early they asked me and I asked God - it was more reliable than
: using alarum-clock, I waked them up at proper time every day they
: asked me (so this year they asked me every day).
Well, this is a very nice story of how you manage to get up in
the morning. What does that have to do with faith? Did Jesus praise
people for their ability to get up in the morning, or their ability
to have a good bowel movement? No. These things are bodily functions,
not part of the realm of faith. No, faith is what we see in Job,
who would not curse God even though he was suffering terribly,
faith is what Abraham showed when he was willing to be obedient
to God to do what seemed impossible, faith is what Jesus showed
when he persevered to bring God's word to a rebellious people who
reviled him. Getting up in the morning is hardly faith.
: Faith is what you rely on. If you have faith in God, you rely on
: Him, you know you may ask Him for everything necessary. Ancient
: Jews had such a faith. Do you know such a faith in your life?
: In the Moon's speech I couldn't find anything about such a faith.
I guess you must be a blind man then. Don't expect to lead others
if you cannot see yourself.
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Aug 23 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Hypocrisy
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Kevin W Davidson (soft-logik@cup.portal.com) wrote:
: Jersy Tarasuik [in an article appearing on TALK.RELIGION.MISC] wrote:
: Well, I think that churches have no business owning any commercial
: enterprises except directly related to the church's ministry (such
: as hospitals, nursing homes, schools, and publishing). This applies
: equally well the the Catholics, the Unification Church and the LDS.
The Unification Church does not own such businesses. However, MEMBERS
of the church own businesses. The same applies to Catholics, that
members of the church own businesses, but the church itself does not.
The Unification Church is strictly a religious organization. The
other acitivities of members of the church which relate to the
fields of art, culture, business are separate entities, incorporated
in their own right, and independent from the church itself.
: Kevin (soft-logik@cup.portal.com)
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Aug 25 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Peace
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
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TCCN User (@tccn.com) wrote:
: Damian,
: I think it is real beautiful that the unification church has amassed
: such a collection of phrases and teachings that shows the similarities of
: all the world's religions. For anybody who has delved into religion at
: all, I believe this realization is a pretty basic one, the only thing
: left to do in that case would be to try and influence these ideas on the
: world's zealots.
We are working on it. There was a peace conference in Seoul, Korea
this week to coincide with "Blessing '95", the wedding of 360,000
couples from 160 nations, which took place this morning, 11 am,
Seoul time. Present at the Summit Council for World Peace conference
were 40 heads of state, mostly former heads, though a few current
ones, and they are working together to do their part to promote
the cause of peace in the world. Rev. Moon teaches that the starting
point of peace is within the individual, in the self-discipline
of one's mind and body. Then it extends to the couple and the family,
and from there to the wider society and to the world. At the last
conference, Hanan Ashrawi (sp?), of the Palestinian people, was
there as a representative, and Mikhail Gorbachev, and many other notables.
One thing one wonders is why there is a total media silence on
these positive efforts being made by Rev. Moon.
At the same time, there was a World Media Conference, a World Culture
and Sports Festival, an International Conference for the Unity
of the Sciences, a Professors' World Peace Academy Conference,
and a conference of the Inter-Religious Federation for World Peace.
It was participants of the IRFWP who wrote the World Scripture.
These are efforts to work with politicians, the media, scientists and
other academics, and religious people for the cause of peace in
the world. The events were all in the same city in the same week,
along with the 360,000 couples wedding whose theme was World Peace
through Ideal Families.
: Actual spiritual evolution, however is a different matter. Just
: collecting facts and phrases does nothing except create for one a sort of
: 'spiritual stamp collection'. It does nothing for the soul. Eventually
: you are going to have to pick a path and stick with it until the goal
: is realized...
I agree that there is no substitute for choosing a discipline and
sticking to it to achieve that state of peace in oneself that can
then radiate out to the world. God has provided us with numerous
traditions, any of which when applied faithfully will yield strongly
positive results.
Thank you Hadis for your positive feedback.
: Hadis Kareem
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Aug 26 1995
Subject: Re: Multilingual Unification Home Pages
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
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Denis Beauregard (beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca) wrote:
: In article <413r6v$kaf@zippy.cais.net> damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) writes:
: >
: >You speak from your profound ignorance. Would you like to know
: >what Rev. Moon really stands for, or are you just interested in
: >strutting around and displaying your ignorance for the whole world
: >to see? I have been working with Rev. Moon for 18 years and know
: >just a little bit more about what he stands for than you do.
: I just talked about that with God. It is enough for me.
: God does not need any "show off" like the show of 300 000 people
: married all the same day. God does not need any temple. God
: does not need any religious body. God does not need any Church.
What God needs is people willing to do His will. The wedding of
400,000 couples was a statement of their commitment to "World Peace
through Ideal Families." I believe that this is a noble goal and
one worthy of a public declaration of solidarity and commitment.
: >Well, here I am. If you want to debate, go ahead. If you have serious
: >questions, I will do my best to answer them. But if the questions
: >are of the genre "Does Rev. Moon still brainwash people?", on a
: >par with "When did you stop beating your wife?", then I will conclude
: >that you are not serious and just like to hear the sound of your
: >own voice.
: So, any ex-moonist pretending he/she was brainwashed is a liar
: from what you wrote? Between your word and that of an ex-moonist,
: why shall I believe you and not him?
What do you mean by brainwashed? Does this mean that he was FORCED
to believe something he did not want to believe? People join and
leave religious groups of their own free will based on the merits
of the group. If someone left the Unification Church, no doubt
they had their reasons, but it is not necessarily because of any
fault of the church. Many have left because their behavior caused
them to feel ashamed in front of their peers in the church. Others
have left because of the failures of other members of the church,
and that is regrettable. However, we are working hard to create
an environment conducive to spiritual growth and development. That
requires a lot of dedication from our members.
: >: If you were, you would find out that God gave to nobody on the
: >: whole earth the right to speak about him and to do so as a
: >: business.
: >Rev. Moon does not take payment for his work as a religious teacher,
: >and neither do I. I invest my OWN MONEY in my ministry and do not
: >earn a dime through it, and have no intentions of making money
: >through it. I don't even need the money.
: So, you say that his church doesn't want its people to give
: 10% of revenue (like Mormons or Jehovah witness)?
Certainly members of the Unification Church tithe, some 10% some
more, some less. We do emphasize the tradition of tithing. However,
that money is for the ministry of the church, not for Rev. Moon's
personal use. He has businesses which provide him with personal
income. I don't know what his personal net worth is and I don't
much care. I know that I can trust him because of his track record
of dedicating all the resources that he has for altruistic purposes.
Having observed that, I don't worry about what he does with the
money as I trust him.
: >Did you ever once hear me ask for money in any of my posts? Did
: >you read any of Rev. Moon's words that I posted where he asks for
: >money? If so, quote me chapter and verse and we can talk about
: >it. If not, you are full of hot air.
: Chapter and verse. Gosh. Moon is god per your standard... Chapter
: and verse, like a bible reference.
No, we have chapter and verse in Shakespeare too, but he is not God.
: >: So, God for sale? No thanks...
: >
: >God does not need money, power, or knowledge. He has all those things.
: >He needs only love.
: So, why is the Moonist church taking 10% of revenue from its
: people?
God does not need money, but the Unification Church is an organization
that works in this world, and as such, needs resources to get its job done.
: Denis Beauregard Internet: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
: Genealogie quebecoise? http://www.ireq.ca/personnel/beaurega/geneal/index.html
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Aug 26 1995
Subject: Re: Rev. Sun Myung Moon - The Leaders' Meeting
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Miguel Watler (pewatler@cyf-kr.edu.pl) wrote:
: Hi Damian,
: I hope you don't mind if I interject with a short history lesson, as I
: live in Poland, but was not brought up here.
: Damian J. Anderson (damian@cais3.cais.com) wrote:
: : Nonsense. Russia only entered the war on the allied side AFTER
: : THE BOMB DROPPED ON HIROSHIMA! The allied powers who fought and
: : won WW II were primarily England, USA and France.
: The Soviet Union did not go to war with JAPAN until around the time of
: the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima. On the other hand, the USSR was at
: war with Germany (June 1941) even before the USA was at war with Germany
: (December 1941).
You are right. I was thinking of the war in the Orient against
the Japanese.
: : I guess that you were indoctrinated with Russian lies growing up
: : in communist Poland.
: In fact, the majority of German war losses were inflicted by the Soviet
: Union, not by the USA, French, or British. It would have been a difficult
: task for the Allied powers to have defeated Germany without the help of
: the USSR. These are the facts.
Yes, you are right. However, Russia were originally allies with
Hitler in the invasion of Poland, and only came to fight Germany
after Hitler turned against Russia. And that was Hitler's downfall.
One might add also that the Soviet Empire were far more brutal
oppressors and murderers than the Nazis ever were. There were millions
killed in ther Ukraine alone when Stalin starved out the Kulaks
in the 1920's. Then there was the Gulag and all the many atrocities
there. It seems to be fashionbable in the West to be anti-Nazi,
yet to be wishy-washy in condemning the atrocities of the Soviets.
The Marxist-Leninist regimes, including the Soviet Union, China,
Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea, and others, all told accounted
for the deaths of hundreds of millions of "enemies of the people".
: Key battles on the Eastern front include Stalingrad, Kursk, Leningrad,
: Moscow...
Yes, you are right. I apologize for the lapse, :-)
: Miguel Watler "The source of all good is trust in
: Cracow University of Technology (E-2) God, submission unto His command,
: 31-155 Cracow Poland and contentment in His holy will
: e-mail: pewatler@cyf-kr.edu.pl and pleasure." - Baha'u'llah.
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Aug 26 1995
Subject: Re: Rev. Sun Myung Moon - My Life of Faith
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: >>>>> "DA" == Damian J Anderson writes:
: DA> Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: DA> Maybe you don't know what faith is. This is like the grasshopper
: DA> saying that the man is a dwarf. You are the dwarf, not Rev. Moon.
: I know quite well... Have really good teacher - best possible.
Jerzy, you know, my remark above about you was uncalled for, and
I apologize for it. Please forgive me.
: DA> : Maybe some example can explain it
: DA> : for you. About year ago large group of people needed to get up early
: DA> Well, this is a very nice story of how you manage to get up in
: Misinterpretation: _not I_ managed. And not once - I said it was
: _many_ times. Weren't my words clear enough? Read them again...
: (I hope you have them, I don't want to waste internet bandwidth)
: DA> the morning. What does that have to do with faith? Did Jesus praise
: DA> people for their ability to get up in the morning, or their ability
: What's about Matthews 6:11? Or 7:11? Or maybe you have some theory
: about what Jesus taught people to pray for? (I noticed while you
: said what we should not ask God for, you didn't say what to ask...)
You are right that Jesus encouraged people to trust God to provide
for their needs. He encouraged us to seek first the Kingdom of
God and be assured that our material needs would be taken care
of. (Matt 6:33). My impression was that he did not want us to make
a big deal about our personal needs, because God already knows what
we need, and if we are going about our Father's business, then
we can trust in God to take care of us, and not focus on the material
things. He illustrated the foolishness of the man who laid up big
stores of grain in his barn and did not concern himself about heavenly
things, and then died in the night. (Luke 12:13-21).
: DA> faith is what Abraham showed when he was willing to be obedient
: DA> to God to do what seemed impossible, faith is what Jesus showed
: ... and, seems you forgot about Abraham, _expecting_ God will give
: him a son when he and his wife were old people (about 80 years old)
: - see Genesis 15:6; you forgot what Jesus said about faith...
Yes, Abraham was indeed a great man of faith.
: DA> when he persevered to bring God's word to a rebellious people who
: DA> reviled him. Getting up in the morning is hardly faith.
: Not getting up: relying on God, expecting He will awake me at time.
: It was said in my next sentence "Faith is what you rely on.".
: Have you forgot Gideon leading 300 Jews against army over 120000
: people? He was sure about result of war, in spite he couldn't rely
: on number or force of people he led - God promised him victory.
Yes, Gideon was also a champion of faith.
: DA> : Jews had such a faith. Do you know such a faith in your life?
: On this topic, I would like to add a question to clarify things:
: Do you know what meant ancient Hebrew words "aman" and "batah"?
: I suppose everyone after theological studies knows them well,
: therefore I expect some detailed description what they meant.
I'm sorry, I don't know much Hebrew at all, merely a few words.
: DA> : In the Moon's speech I couldn't find anything about such a faith.
: DA> I guess you must be a blind man then. Don't expect to lead others
: DA> if you cannot see yourself.
: Does it mean you see something there? Quote it, and explain...
Again, I have to apologize. I guess I was in a bad mood when I
wrote this. For some idea of Rev. Moon's ideas of faith, consult
the speech "Faith and Reality" which I posted recently. I would
tell you where to find it on the Web, but my whole Web Site is
down today. You can also read the World Scripture on Faith. You
can find the World Scripture at:
http://www.silcom.com/~origin/wscon.html
http://www.unification.net/ws
The CAIS server appears to be down today, but that is unusual.
It will be up again soon.
In particular, the articles on faith are at:
http://www.unification.net/ws/theme104.htm
http://www.unification.net/ws/theme105.htm
http://www.unification.net/ws/theme106.htm
http://www.unification.net/ws/theme107.htm
http://www.unification.net/ws/theme108.htm
http://www.unification.net/ws/theme109.htm
or the corresponding articles at silcom.com.
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Aug 26 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Peace
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
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Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: >>>>> "D" == Damian J Anderson writes:
: D> Peace is one of the most desirable fruits of salvation in all the
: ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Damian, are you sure it is correct? While peace is desirable,
: while it is in heaven, the sentence seems to be incorrect.
: We need peace here on earth, not in heaven only...
: When we are in heaven, will we bother about peace there?
Well, of course we need peace on earth, but then salvation is going
to take place on earth too. I did not even mention heaven in this
sentence. and no doubt there will be peace in heaven, since only
those who do God's will and who are in His favor will be there.
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Aug 28 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Hypocrisy
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
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Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: >>>>> "DA" == Damian J Anderson writes:
: DA> Kevin W Davidson (soft-logik@cup.portal.com) wrote:
: DA> : Well, I think that churches have no business owning any commercial
: DA> : enterprises except directly related to the church's ministry (such
: DA> The Unification Church does not own such businesses. However, MEMBERS
: Interesting. When we were talking about unpaid taxes, which caused
: Moon to be sentenced for 18 months in prison, you said "Moon isn't
: owner of the business, he only signified by his name what belonged
: to Unification Church". Now you are saying the church does not own
: it, members own... Surely members don't own the business Moon was
: to pay taxes for - if they owned it, they would be imprisoned for
: unpaid taxes, not Moon.
The tax case against Rev. Moon was a dispute over the year 1972
which was the FIRST TAX RETURN in the USA when he owned no businesses
in the USA. What do you think about a government which is going
to find fault with a man for his first tax return in a foreign
country, when he does not speak the language? He followed all the
rules, and even paid for accounting services to ensure that everything
was above board.
The amount in question was a puny amount, and in my mind, it was
a clear case of an unpopular man coming under the misuse of power
of the US government. How come Bill Clinton is not now in jail
since he owes unpaid taxes over Whitewater?
And also, the money in question had nothing to do with any business.
It was all church money, that they claimed was his. Nobody disputed
that the money was used for the ministry of the church, not even
the government.
: Also, in one of his speeches Moon said
: about quite a large business he owns (need reference? seems I saved
: the postings, it was one of _your_ postings, and I suppose I can
: find it quickly), I don't know if the business he said he owned
: is his or it belongs to his church and is only signified by him,
: but from _his_ words posted by _you_ I know such a business exists.
Yes, now we do have such businesses, but a man can be active in
more than one area, say religion and business, without the two
conflicting. I run a business, and I am active in religion, but
the two are distinct.
: DA> The Unification Church is strictly a religious organization. The
: As I remember, court after careful examination had other opinion...
They were wrong, and will one day come to regret what they did to this man.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Aug 28 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Peace
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
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Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: >>>>> "DA" == Damian J Anderson writes:
: DA> Well, of course we need peace on earth, but then salvation is going
: DA> to take place on earth too. I did not even mention heaven in this
: Fact, I forgot - or maybe still don't realize enough - that your
: religion expect salvation on earth - from your words I guess now
: that you more consider salvation on earth than getting to heaven.
What I mean is that it MUST first take place on earth, since the
spirits of good men and women in heaven were created on earth.
Jesus said "What is bound on earth will be bound in heaven and
what is loosed on earth will be loosed in heaven." Spiritual growth
takes place on earth, it is sown on earth and reaped in the spiritual
realm. You need the physical body to obtain spiritual growth. When
we do good deeds in our body, it provides nourishment for our spirit.
We feel elated, joyful and high spirited. When we do evil deeds, we
feel anxious, fearful, guilty. In this way, we can distinguish
between good and evil, by the effect that it has on our spirit.
So, when we achieve peace on earth, then it can be enjoyed for
eternity in the spirit world, as that is the treasure that we can
take with us.
: The salvation will be on end of world, but what I still want to
: say is we need peace _now_, _not only_ as fruit of salvation...
Yes, I am talking about peace now also. We create and experience
it here and now, and then we take it with us into eternity.
: (this, I suppose, can go to any religious newsgroup; maybe
: buddhists don't know word "heaven" and use "nirvana")
Although the words may be different, the concept is similar. The
World Scripture certainly demonstrates the high degreee of parallellism
between the world's religions.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Aug 31 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Hypocrisy
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
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Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: >>>>> "DA" == Damian J Anderson writes:
: DA> Kevin W Davidson (soft-logik@cup.portal.com) wrote:
: DA> : Well, I think that churches have no business owning any commercial
: DA> : enterprises except directly related to the church's ministry (such
: DA> The Unification Church does not own such businesses. However, MEMBERS
: Interesting. When we were talking about unpaid taxes, which caused
: Moon to be sentenced for 18 months in prison, you said "Moon isn't
: owner of the business, he only signified by his name what belonged
: to Unification Church".
The court case was not about businesses. It was about money owned
by the church and used by the church that the government said belonged
to him personally.
: Now you are saying the church does not own
: it, members own... Surely members don't own the business Moon was
: to pay taxes for - if they owned it, they would be imprisoned for
: unpaid taxes, not Moon.
It was not about business taxes but personal taxes.
: Also, in one of his speeches Moon said
: about quite a large business he owns (need reference? seems I saved
: the postings, it was one of _your_ postings, and I suppose I can
: find it quickly), I don't know if the business he said he owned
: is his or it belongs to his church and is only signified by him,
: but from _his_ words posted by _you_ I know such a business exists.
He may have de facto control of those businesses without personally
owning them. Anyway, there are many businesses now associated with
members of the UC in America, but in 1972-73, there were not. The
court case applied to one year's tax return.
: DA> The Unification Church is strictly a religious organization. The
: As I remember, court after careful examination had other opinion...
No, the courts in the USA have upheld the religious nature of the UC.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 1 1995
Subject: Re: Why did Jesus die, anyway?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Very simply, Jesus did NOT have to die. He came preaching a gospel
of repentance and the imminence of the Kingdom of God, but he was
rejected by the leaders of the people, and ended up asking the
drunkards, tax-collectors and harlots to follow him.
Had the prepared people actually received and welcomed him, then
God could have established His eternal reign on earth at the time
of Jesus. As it is, we are having to do it now at the time of the
Second Coming.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 1 1995
Subject: Re: SCIENCE AND RELIGION ARE INCOMPATIBLE
Newsgroups: talk.origins,talk.religion.misc
Followup-To: talk.origins,talk.religion.misc
References: <41mct0$g7u@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <41q8l3$ii4@grid.Direct.CA> <199508282242.SAA27463@milo.math.sc.edu> <41v7du$ek6@rebecca.albany.edu> <424va6$fh4@redwood.cs.sc.edu>
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Science and religion cannot possibly be incompatible at their core
as they both seek truth. The former seeks truth about the physical
world, the world related to the body, the latter seeks the truth
of the spiritual world, the world related to the inner part of
the human being, the spirit, mind or soul. One may not agree with
what a particular religionist or scientist says, but that does
not mean that truth does not exist, but merely that it has not
yet been found. Somewhere out there is the truth of both worlds,
and as religion and science approach the truth which is absolute,
unchanging and eternal, they will approach the Source of those
truths, and will also approach one another. It is inevitable.
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 1 1995
Subject: Re: Are Bodhisattvas enlightened?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.misc
References: <425ki7$h3t@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
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Carlon Haas (haascar@mail.utexas.edu) wrote:
: I have been studying Therevada Buddhism and have read the Jataka tales of
: the Buddha's former lives. He was a Boddhisattva, but was not enlightened.
: Why is it then that my Mahayana friends all insist that Bodhisattvas are
: enlightened. How can this be? I admit my knowledge is not vast, but the
: sutras should not lie and the sutras do say that the Bodhisattva was not
: enlightened. Am i wrong? Are my friends correct? Or was the Buddha a liar?
: I now leave it up to the wisdom of this group to help me.
: Buddha be with you,
Carlon,
I did some research for you and found this article in the World
Scripture on Perfection. The URL where the complete text can be
found on the Web is:
http://www.unification.net/ws/theme023.htm
It suggests that the bodhisattva has vowed not to enter Nirvana
until he has rescued all beings from suffering, but in doing so,
exhibits the selfless love of those who dwell in Nirvana.
Here it is:
Mahamati, when the bodhisattvas face and perceive the happiness of the
Samadhi of perfect tranquillization, they are moved with the feeling of
love and sympathy owing to their original vows [made for the salvation of
all beings, saying, "So long as they do not attain Nirvana, I will not
attain it myself"] and they become aware of the part they are to perform as
regards the inexhaustible vows. Thus, they do not enter Nirvana. But the
fact is that they are already in Nirvana, because in them there is no
rising of discrimination. With them the discrimination of grasped and
grasping no more takes place; as they recognize that there is nothing in
the world but what is seen of the Mind itself, they have done away with the
thought of discrimination concerning all things. They have abandoned
adhering to and discriminating based upon the faculties of cognition
(citta), analysis (manas), and judgment (manovijnana), and external
objects, and sel f-nature. However, they have not given up the things
promoting the cause of Buddhism. Because of their attachment to the inner
insight which belongs to the stage of Tathagatahood, whatever they do all
issues from this transcendental knowledge.
Buddhism. Lankavatara Sutra 80
Lankavatara Sutra 80: This describes the bodhisattva who has taken a vow
not to enter Nirvana until he has rescued all beings from suffering--cf.
Sikshasamuccaya 280-81, pp. 979f, and Garland Sutra 23, p. 980. His
attitude is so totally without self that he is, according to this sutra,
already in Nirvana. Thus Nirvana is a state of being that can be lived out
in the world; cf. Mulamadhyamaka Karika 25, pp. 91f; Holy Teaching of
Vimalakirti 2, p. 965.
: Carlon
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 1 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Hypocrisy
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.messianic
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Paul Bennett (bennett@math.math.unm.edu) wrote:
: In article jt@zfja-gate.fuw.edu.pl
: (Jerzy Tarasiuk) writes:
: >>>>>> "DA" == Damian J Anderson writes:
: >DA> Jerzy Tarasiuk (jt@fuw.edu.pl) wrote:
: >DA> : >>>>> "D" == Damian J Anderson writes:
: >DA> : D> But Rev. Sun Myung Moon is a very hard working man who lives an
: >DA> : D> exemplary life. Having watched him for 18 years, I can say
: >DA> : Seems Moon was sentenced for 18 months in prison because he deceived
: >DA> : tax office and didn't pay taxes? And he preaches theft is wrong...
: >
: >DA> No, he was sentenced to 18 months in a US prison for doing exactly
: >DA> what the leaders of many other faiths do, such as the Roman Catholic
: >
: >Do leaders of RCC own factories? Every bishop has a car factory, for
: >example? Maybe Pope has one? Provide its address. I've never heard of
: >any. Better check what you write about RCC, seems you don't know it.
: Seems to me the problem is that Moon's 'church' resembles a cult
: more than a formally recognized religion. The reason is simple:
: he made the mistake of proclaiming himself the messiah, the next
: incarnation of Christ. This doesn't sit well with most Christians,
: both Catholic and Protestant. It is customary in these faiths to
: have a priest or minister verify for the believer that said person
: really is the Son of God, without that person saying anything of
: the kind beforehand. Besides, didn't Jesus say, pay your taxes?
: But, Moon was indicted because he did not. His actions speak louder
: than his words. Therefore, he is viewed commonly as heading a
: cult, which is not exempt from payment of taxes.
Well, I would be interested in your definition of a "cult" and a "formally
recognized religion." When Jesus was teaching, I suggest to you
that he appeared just like a cult leader would to you today. His
group of followers was not a "formally recognized religion." Then,
once may ask, "recognized by whom?" In fact, Jesus paid with his life just
because the leaders of his day denied him recognition, and had
him crucified. The same persecution came to every genuine major religious
leader in history.
Jesus made what appeared to be outrageous claims for himself, he was
surrounded by controversy, and there were people in high places
trying to shut him up and have him killed. Does that sound familiar?
He had formerly loose women hanging around him and providing for
his material well-being, and a band of followers who were former
drunkards, tax-collectors and zealots.
But who was right in the view of history? So the same thing could
be applied to Rev. Moon. Just because the elite of today do not
recognize him, that does not mean that he is wrong, or that God
disapproves of him. This is the path that all prophets and men
of God have had to go.
And Rev. Moon did pay his taxes. The US government were flat wrong
in their indictment and conviction. It was racism and religious
bigotry, pure and simple, an effort to punish him and keep him
out of the country. A poll at the time done in New York indicated
that a large percentage of the population, if chosen for a jury,
would convict him no matter what the FACTS were. And that is exactly
what happened.
He was so unpopular that very few people thought of his rights.
He was in Korea when the indictment came down, and he could have
just stayed in Korea, but he chose to return immediately to the
USA and face the charges, even though there was no extradition
treaty between S. Korea and the USA.
: * Paul Bennett Hey guys, there's only one universe.
: * bennett@math.math.unm.edu
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 7 1995
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Hypocrisy
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
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Kevin W Davidson (soft-logik@cup.portal.com) wrote:
: Jerzy Tarasiuk [in an article appearing on TALK.RELIGION.MISC] wrote:
: >It is said people were saying He was druncard, not that He or His
: >disciples were. Maybe some of them were before they met Jesus, but
: >it is impossible any of them was after - how druncard can be disciple,
: >he would be unable to learn anything...
I think that I said they were former drunkards.
: Of all the sins the disciples of Jesus commit, why is drunkenness
: not present? Alcoholism is a disease, you know.
It is interesting how modern feel-good Christianity has redefined
all kinds of sin as illness. We see the same thing with alcoholism,
repeated sexual offenses, kleptomania, drug abuse, and so on. The
SIN is redefined as a DISEASE to take away MORAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Addiction of any kind is slavery to the flesh, and that is sin.
Since sin is a disease, a spiritual disease, then I guess you can
say that alcoholism is too. But the alcoholic, the fornicator,
the adulterer, the rapist, the homosexual, every kind of sinner
is always responsible for his or her actions, whatever convenient
diagnosis you put on it.
: Kevin (soft-logik@cup.portal.com)
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 7 1995
Subject: Re: Eve's Apple - The Eden Story
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.messianic
References: <42944i$nb5@nova.umuc.edu> <429gcn$orc@auntie.bbcnc.org.uk> <42h8uq$lcr@merlion.singnet.com.sg> <42hvek$3l8@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
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Ron Davis (rondavis@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Moon (i.e. self-proclaimed Messiah) is written of in biblical history as
: was shown in Mk 13:6. Now, run along and give all you have to Moon so that
: you have nothing and while you eat a strict carbo diet devoid of
: all protien. After all brain washing occurs best when the brain lacks a
: good source of poly-peptides to form necessary high order reasoning. Is
: this why Moonies are given only potatos until they conform to the excepted
: way of thinking?
You are both insulting and quite ignorant of the facts of Unification
lifestyle. I am a professional in the computer consulting business,
I own my own home, and have a family with 4 kids. So get off your
tired old steroetypes, okay?
: The reason most don't take issue is that Moon is not who he Proclaims himself
: to be. Tell us (if you know) what does he do with all those millions and
: why does he need so many body guards to protect him? A Messiah having the
: Rod of GOD would have no need for such.
If you want to know what he does with the millions, how about the
1 BILLION dollars he has invested in the News World and the Washington
Times which has nurtured and guided the current convservative revolution
in America, from the days of Ronald Reagan to today.
Rev. Moon just completed a speaking tour of Latin America in which
he met with 8 head of state. He has just begun a 16 city speaking
tour of the USA. His wife spoke in 44 nations in 1993-94. We have
been involved with numerous worldwide activities bringing together
people of many disciplines for the cause of world peace. You can
check out my Home Page for more information about these things.
: All we ask is that you be a good little moony and not post to a group that
: finds messianic figures of questionable ethnicity out of place.
"Good little moony" - Ron Davis is a religious bigot.
"questionable ethnicity" - Ron Davis is a racist.
: Nuf-Said.
Indeed. Maybe we could quote Jesus when he said :
"For a man's words flow out of what fills his heart. A good man
draws from his store of goodness; a bad man draws bad things from
his store of badness. So I tell you this, that for every unfounded
word men utter they will answer on Judgement day, since it is by
your words you will be acquitted, and by your words condemned."
(Matt 12:35-37).
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net
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Sep 7 1995
Subject: Re: Why did Jesus die, anyway?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
References: <420r2s$heu$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> <4211vs$iml@galaxy.ucr.edu> <4262ig$aq9@zippy.cais.net> <427aue$7md@ns0.emc.com> <42h8ui$lcr@merlion.singnet.com.sg> <42i271$rp@ns0.emc.com>
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Steve McConnell (mcconnell_steve@isus.emc.com) wrote:
: ezam@teleview.com.sg (Dennis Cheong) wrote:
: >Steve McConnell wrote:
: >>damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) wrote:
: >>>Very simply, Jesus did NOT have to die.
: >>This contradicts Yeshua's own perspective on what he came to do...,
: >
: >No, this agrees perfectly with God's own plan to prepare for the
: >coming of Christ after 4000 biblical years of restoration history.
: It agrees with your understanding, which I submit can't be supported by
: Yeshua's own teachings.
Jesus' primary message was "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is
at hand" (Matt 4:17). If the people had believed in him, then the
prophecies is Isaiah 9, 11 and 60 of the glorious king and eternal prince
of peace would have come about IN HIS LIFETIME.
There was a parallel line of prophecy for what would happen if
the people did not believe in Jesus. Examples of this are Isaiah
53 and Psalm 22.
Many times, biblical prophecy offers a blessing or a curse, depending
on the human response. If the people obey God, they are blessed,
and if they disobey, God's protection and blessing are withdrawn,
and this is a curse.
: >It would be better to understand first of all what God wanted to
: >achieve in creating and what went wrong that caused His ideal still
: >unaccomplished. Then can we better understand what God hoped Jesus
: >could do 2000 years ago.
: I'm having trouble parsing your writing. From what I can understand from
: the above, I'm having more trouble with the implications of your last
: sentence. It suggests G-d intended something for Yeshua which didn't
: happen. Everything that was to happen at that time did happen just as He
: planned.
Yes, Jesus' PRIMARY MISSION was that of building the Kingdom of
God, which is a world where people live by the teachings of the
sermon on the mount, where people do not need to be told to be
good as the law of God is written in their hearts as is prophesied
in the Old Testament. It is a world where people are BORN free
of sin, where they inherit sinlessness from their parents, where
SINLESSNESS is the social norm. Today, we live in the world dominated
by evil where SIN is the social norm. The process of transformaing
the world dominated by evil to the world under the dominion of
goodness is the Messianic mission. In Unification theology, salvation
is the same as restoration of God's ideal. To save a drowning man,
you need to get him out of the water and onto dry land. Once there,
he has no more need of being saved. If you merely keep his head
above water, he is out of immediate danger, but not fully saved.
If you are saved, you no longer need a savior, BY DEFINITION.
: >>moreover, tied with your following statement, you teeter on making the
: >>same tragic error some so-called 'christians' have made; namely, assuming
: >>he was killed unnecessarily because the "prepared people" (one assumes
: >>you're speaking of the Jews of that time) didn't receive him.
: >
: >I am interested to know who are those 'christians' whom you are
: >referring to.. By what way you call that an error?
You may call it error, but the disciples of Jesus were angry at
the injustice of Jesus' death. St. Paul said : "It is a wisdom
that none of the masters of this age have ever known, or they would
not have crucified the Lord of Glory." (1 Cor 2:8)
Jesus did not tell people to kill him in order to be saved, but
to BELIEVE in him and to OBEY him. The same applies now as when
he was on the Earth. Those who believed in him and obeyed his words
passed from death to life and escaped the judgement.
: History is sadly full of people who claimed to follow the Messiah yet
: acted in a manner completely contradictory to the Messiah's teachings.
: No small number of assaults against Jewish people have been conducted on
: the assumption that the Jews killed Yeshua. While in one sense, since he
: came to atone for the sins of the world, one can rightly conclude that
: all Jews AND all Gentiles are the reason for his death; one can not
: rightly conclude that the entire race of Jewish people is responsible for
: Yeshua's death. Consider that Yeshua himself said that he had to be
: handed over to the *gentiles* who would put him to death. In the
: physical sense of his death, there were Jews and Gentiles responsible for
: that execution. In the spiritual sense of what he was accomplishing for
: mankind, not a single person who has ever lived is innocent. That's
: precisely why he came (though not in your view...).
I agree that hypocrisy is rife among religious people. I am not
suggesting that you believe in someone who says one thing and does
another. Indeed, Jesus said that you will know a true prophet by
his fruits. The historical fact is that the Jewish people were
God's beloved whom he had prepared for centuries to receive the
Lord and they did not understand the time of their visitation.
So, as Jesus said in the parable of the vineyard, "I tell you,
then, that the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given
to a people who will produce its fruit." (Matt 21:43) The vineyard
was handed over to other tenants, that is, the position of Israel
is granted to those with the faith of Abraham, not those simple
of that lineage. That torch was passed to those who believed in
Jesus. At the time of the Second Coming, if the believers in Jesus
fail to recognize the Lord when he comes again, then the Christian
chosen people may also find themselves losing their blessing and
having to make way for another people who can produce the fruits
that God needs from us.
The entire human race has had to bear the consequence of the sin
of our ancestors, even though we may not have committed the sin.
This applies to the sin of Adam and to the sin of those who killed
Jesus. I certainly do not advocate the persecution of Jews. Jesus
taught forgiveness. When a woman was caught in the act of adultery,
he said to her that he did not condemn her, but also told her to
sin no more, recognizing her sinful state. So we can forgive at
the same time as recognizing error. But it must be known that the
killing of Jesus was a grievous sin which caused great pain to
God. However, God is able to turn every situation to good, and
brought about a partial victory against Satan through Jesus' death
and resurrection. The final victory will only be won when sin is
eradicated from human history permanently.
: >>Why do you concern yourself with others not receiving and welcoming him
: >>when you don't do so yourself?
: >It is of concern because the similar tragic event should not happen
: >when Christ come again.
: If you followed the teachings of the Messiah, you would know that his
: return is not for this purpose and such will not happen. What should be
: avoided is the continuation of the anti-Semitic bent of hating Jews for
: the death of Yeshua.
I agree that one should not hate Jews or anyone else.
: I still don't understand why you're concerned with anything to do with
: Yeshua since you don't follow him.
I do follow the teachings of Jesus. I was a Christian before I
was ever a Unificationist, and I have never given up my belief
in and obedience to the teachings of Jesus and see no dissonance
between the two faiths. It is just that I think many people misunderstand
what Jesus was saying in many cases, which appears to contradict what
Rev. Moon teaches. If anything, Rev. Moon brings a very deep understanding
of the message and the heart of Jesus, which brings people much
closer to Jesus than they were before.
: Steve
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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Sep 7 1995
Subject: Re: Why did Jesus die, anyway?
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic
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Joe Slater (joe@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: Mark Kieskowski writes:
: >From the gospel, it is clear Jesus knew that he would die beforehand.
: >Why must he, as diety must he die to save us? When Satan went to war
: >with God, maybe somehow he gained control of the realm of the dead.
: >As a result, he gained the souls, present and future, contained
: >therein. Maybe, Jesus had to enter the realm of the dead to create a
: >gateway back to God's realm. Possible? I believe that God in his
: >infinite wisdom would not have sent Jesus to be slain unless it was
: >absolutely necasary. Maybe this isn't right it is just a thought.
: The paragraph to which I am responding lies in the realm of Christian
: theology and is not an area which I am either competent or comfortable in
: discussing. I am replying to this only to point it out as an example of
: the consequences of moving away from monotheism.
: The poster is arguing that there is a figure, Satan, which is so powerful
: that not only could he defeat G-d, but that G-d had to kill a part of
: Himself in order to mount some sort of rescue mission from enemy
: territory. This is nothing but Dualism. There is now a figure which is
: more powerful than G-d in at least one area.
Satan only has power because humanity gives it to Satan. When we
sin, we empower Satan. When we do God's will, we empower God. Satan
has power over this world because our first ancestors ceded their
power to him voluntarily without so much as a fight. To get that
power over His own children back again, God acts according to Principle
and persuades us, He does not use force. In this sense, Satan has
a right of ownership over human beings because our ancestors believed
his word rather than God's and made him lord and master, contrary
to God's will. The whole of human history has been a struggle between
God and Satan over the hearts and minds of human beings. One day
that struggle will be brought to a final conclusion, and people
will freely choose God. The one who brings that about is the Messiah.
: jds
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
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