Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 1
> For my part, I offer the following excerpt from _The Kingdom of the
> Cults_ by Walter Martin (c) 1985:
>
> _Unification Theology vs. the Bible_
> God:
>
> "God's essential positivity and essential negativity are the
> attributes of His essential character and essential form....
> Here we call the positivity and negativity of God
> 'masculinity' and 'femininity', respectively."
> [Divine Principle, p.24]
It is clear from the Bible that God has both masculinity and femininity.
In Genesis 1:27, we read:
"God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created
him, male and female he created them." (JB)
> "God either projected the full value of Himself in His object,
> or He created nothing at all....So man is the visible form of
> God, and God is the invisible form of man. Subject and object
> are one essence. God and man are one. Man is God incarnate."
> [Sun Myung Moon, New Hope, Washington DC: HSA-UWC, 1974, p. 5]
We see that Jesus was the word made flesh, God incarnate, in John 1:14. So
Jesus was God incarnate, one with God. Jesus commanded us to be like him
in Matt 5:48: "You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly father
is perfect." He also tells us of a time when we will be like him: "On that
day, you will understand that I am in my Father and you in me and I in
you." (John 14:20). He also said "I am the vine, you are the branches."
(Jn 15:5). All these indicate that we should be like him, one with God.
> In the theology of the Unification Church relative to God, there
> are traces of Mormonism and spiritism flavored with Moon's ever present
> psycho-sexual emphasis.
> The Bible categorically teaches that man, far from being
> "incarnate God," is created "lower than the angels (Heb. 2:6-8) and
> a transgressor of the laws ordained by God.
> The only time that God "projected the full value of himself" was
> in the person of Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14,18). Moon's theology is
> also anti-trinitarian [Divine Principles, p.68] and inevitably ends
> in the error of blurring the distinction between man and God.
> Such passages as 2nd Peter 1:17 when compared with Titus 2:13 and
> Acts 5:3-4 are clearly indicative of trinitarian theology and
> Matthew 28:19 indicates trinitarian thinking on the part of our Lord
> when He gave the great commission. As early as the second century
> of the Christian Church the word trinity was invoked as a means of
> expressing the mysterious relationship extant between the Father,
> Christ, and the Spirit.
> All cultic structures as we have seen deny biblical trinitarianism
> which is totally monotheistic and usually introduce some variation
> which distorts the revelation God has given concerning himself.
The biblical basis for the trinitarian doctrine that you espouse is
tenuous. My belief is grounded in scripture. Just because Jesus was the
word made flesh does not mean that God does not want other people to
become the word made flesh. That is his hope for all of us as expressed in
Matt 5:48.
Hebrews 2:6-8 says : "For a short while you made him lower than the
angels" but 1 Cor 6:3 says : "Since we are also to judge the angels, it
follows that we can judge matters of everyday life." Man was created to be
the Lord of creation (Gen 1:28), including the angels. Heb 1:14 says: "The
truth is they [angels] are all spirits whose work is service, sent to help
those who will be the heirs of salvation." Man may be lower than the angels
now because of his fallen state, but man's true state is to be their lord
and judge.
I do not in any way deny that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living
God. But Jesus said that God is one, not three in Mark 12:29:
MAR 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O
Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.* ...'"
* Or the Lord our God is one Lord
I hope that we can speak to one another in a spirit of dialogue and mutual
respect. If you are truly a Christian, then you will be praying constantly
and seeking for God day and night. After all, people had trouble believing
that the Messiah could possibly come out of Galilee (Jn 7:41). So do not be
taken by surprise if God chooses to speak to you using someone who does
not fit your neat conception of the Messiah or the one you are expecting.
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>Is there a verse somewhere in the Bible that actually says that
>a man should not "spill the seed of his loins upon the ground"?
>Or is that a church teaching couched in biblical language?
I believe you are referring to Onan, the second son of Judah in Genesis 38
who was given Tamar, his brother's wife to bear a child on behalf of his
dead brother in fulfilment of the levirate law. I do not have a Bible on
hand, so I could not tell you the quotes on the levirate law. Anyway, Onan
had sexual intercourse with Tamar, but he spilled his seed on the ground,
making it difficult, if not impossible for her to conceive. As a result of
this, God was displeased with Onan and he died. Judah was reluctant to
give his third and last son to Tamar after the first two died.
The sin of masturbation used to be called Onanism after Onan, though what
Onan did was not masturbation. What he did was to derive sexual pleasure
in sexual intercourse with Tamar without the intention of giving her a
child, by withdrawing before ejaculation and spilling his seed on the
ground. She subsequently disguised herself as a prostitute and conceived
with Judah, her father-in-law. Though this may seem bizarre, God blessed
her for caring more about Judah's lineage than for her own life. She is
mentioned in the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew's gospel as one of the few
women mentioned. She is an ancestor of Jesus. It is notable that all the
women mentioned in Jesus' lineage did something improper sexually, in the
strict eyes of the law. They were, if I remember rightly: Tamar, Rahab the
prostitute, who welcomed the spies into Jericho at the time of the
reconnaisance of Canaan before the conquest, Ruth who lay down with Boaz,
the grandfather of David though they were not married, and Mary who
conceived out of wedlock.
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In my previous post, I mentioned the women in Jesus' lineage who had
committed sexual improprieties, yet were included in his genealogy in
Matthew's gospel. The one I left out was Bathsheba, who committed adultery
with King David while her husband Uriah the Hittite was at war. David and
Bathsheba lost their first child, the Bible says, because God was
displeased with David killing Uriah. However, their second son was Solomon
who went on to become King of Israel and to build the temple in Jerusalem
and reign over the most glorious time of the history of Israel. However,
he became corrupted by marrying 700 wives and having 300 concubines and
allowing their pagan worship, which included child sacrifice and ritual
prostitution, to go on in the temple of the Lord.
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Rev. Moon does not claim to be the same Jesus who lived on the Earth 2000
years ago. He says that the Jesus you speak about appeared to him when he
was a young man asking him to complete the work of building the Kingdom of
God, which was the work that Jesus came to do, and a task that EVERY
Christian is called upon to do. Rev. Moon is claiming to be another man
with the SAME MISSION as Jesus, not that he is the SAME PERSON. That of
course begs the question as to what Jesus' earthly mission truly was. I
believe that it was to recreate Eden on Earth, to be the man who would
begin a lineage of sinless individuals through his marriage and family and
to proclaim the Kingdom of God on Earth and build it in his lifetime.
This did not happen when Jesus came the first time because before he could
establish the necessary foundation and infrastructure for his mission of
proclaiming his message to the world, he was killed by the very people who
were prepared to receive him and assist him in spreading his gospel to the
world during his lifetime.
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> Would the uneventful death of Mr. Moon be the end of your religion? I have
> no desire to kill him :) but I am younger than him and expect that he will
> die, as any other mortal, within my lifetime. If this does happen how will
> you respond?.. or, do you deny the possibility?
I don't think that the death of Rev. Moon will be an end to the way of
life that he taught. I fully expect him to pass from this world, just like
every human being does eventually. For me, faith is about TRUST. I trust
God, I trust the guidance and wisdom that I have received from Sun Myung
Moon. Yet I know that once he passes from this world, his words will be as
valid as they ever were. He is showing us a way of life of loving God
above all else, and living for the sake of others. It is one thing to read
about it happening long ago, it is another to witness it happening today
and see how a man takes up the same challenges that I face, and to see what
his responses are to the sadness and misery in this world. He is a man who
has persevered through tremendous hardship with love and dignity and has
maintained his faith in the goal of a world of goodness and the reign of
God on Earth, even though the evil world ridicules and mocks that idea.
His greatest legacy will be people who live as he does.
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> Could you possibly explain "ONE MAN will fulfill all these prophecies"
> further?
>
> For the past year I have been studying the "Return" in detail and have
> noticed the Second Advent, Messiah, Imam, True Man and Maitreya Buddha
> "Thread" that appears in all the major and a number of minor world
> religions.
Yes, there is that thread in all the major religions because God desires a
world of oneness, of goodness and peace. To achieve that, he sent many
prophets and teachers to teach people the way to live as God would want so
that finally, He can send that one man who can be the harbinger of the
world of peace and goodness. Each religion has a different name for that
new world and for the man who will create it. However, to God, it is one
and the same man. If Jesus had been accepted 2000 years ago, he could
rightfully have claimed to be the returned Buddha, the True man and so on.
However, he was rejected and murdered, so God has eagerly awaited a time
when he could make the preparation to send another man in the same role as
he sent Jesus, the builder of the Kingdom of God on Earth.
What I am saying is that Sun Myung Moon, a religious teacher from Korea,
is the man who has come to fulfil all of those prophecies, and
is proclaiming that worldwide today.
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The title "Christ" in greek, or "Messiah" in Hebrew are both titles
representing a position, just like the title "President of the United
States" represents a position. George Washington and Bill Clinton both
held the latter position, though they were different men. The names
"Jesus" and "Rev. Moon" are both names referring to individual men, just
like Clinton and Washington are names referring to individual men. This is
the distinction that I make. So, when I say "Christ" has returned, I mean
that Rev. Moon is a man with the same mission as Jesus, the same role to
play in the world as the historical man Jesus of Nazareth. That mission I
believe is to be the man who initiates the creation of the Kingdom of God
on Earth, as Jesus prayed: "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on EARTH
as it is in Heaven." Jesus was unable to complete the building of an
earthly paradise because he was rejected and murdered by his
contemporaries.
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> As I understand it, Christ was born perfect because he was of virgin birth,
> which is not a usual way for a child to be born. However he was fully
> human.
I don't think that Jesus was born perfect, but he was born sinless. He
BECAME perfect, as it says in Hebrews 5:7-9, when he learned obedience, and
therefore became a source of salvation to those who OBEY him. His birth
was undoubtedly special, though I don't believe that Mary was a virgin,
but that Jesus had a father and a mother. If he had not, he would not be
fully human.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> So why did He create us then??
I think that as Lou said, God was alone and lonely and created us so that
He could experience love. There is no posibility for love without a
partner. However, I don't think that God created us as miserable
creatures, but to be His equals. The first man and woman though, turned
away from God and caused Him immeasurable sadness, and caused misery for
humanity, since we were created to live in the atmosphere of God's love.
Jesus came, I believe, to achieve what Adam and Eve could not, to start a
new history of sinless humanity, and to create the eternal foundation for
the Reign of God on Earth. He was thwarted in that effort by the
faithlessness of the people prepared to receive him. God has not given up
hope, though, of creating that world of goodness, where every human being
can find an eternal soul mate in heaven, God, and an eternal soul mate on
earth, a husband or wife. We would also have the love of friends,
siblings, parents, children, many dimensions of love. This would be a
source of infinite happiness for God, and for us, and would fulfill His
dream of love which He had when He created us.
> Is God all knowing? If yes, then He knew Adam and Eve would sin, right?
> So why did He bother creating an imperfect world?
I don't think that God knew for sure that Adam and Eve would sin. It says
in Gen 6:6 that God regretted having created man and wanted to put an end
to them all because they had become so evil. This would not have happened
if He could foresee everything that would happen. No doubt, He knows the
possibilities more clearly than anyone, yet He gives us each free will.
So, events contrary to God's desire can occur, such as the Fall of Man, or
the betrayal of Jesus.
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> I remember being at college a few years back and seeing a display
> table of the SBC Interfaith Witness Department. The thing that struck me
> the most was that they carried flyers on Lutherans, Catholics,
> Presbyterians, Greek Orthodox, and other denominations. Now I can see how
> someone with no sense of church history and tradition could maybe
> classify Catholics as a cult. But why are the rest of these
> denominations considered cults?
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary says of "cult", among other things:
"A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also its body of adherents."
This would suggest that the status of "cult" is conferred by outsiders'
impression of the group, rather than something inherent in the group
itself. Also, it would seem that EVERY religion in some stage of its
history has been regarded as a cult. The Way, as the original followers of
Jesus described themselves, were considered a noxious and pernicious
influence in the Roman Empire and were hunted down for the purpose of
exterminating them. It appears that God allows persecution as a way to
separate the wheat from the chaff. Any religion that can withstand long
periods of harsh and even violent opposition must offer its followers
something that is worth the ordeal of enduring such attacks. Only such
religions so tested in the fire of persecution survive to see the light of
day and to be more than blips in the course of history.
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> God as spurned lover. As all wise and mature lovers do when the object
> of their affection does not return the love, He casts them into hell to
> burn and be tortured forever. Another view would have Him rewarding those
> who love him with Eternal Life, but extinguishing those who have turned away.
> Either way, we can only stand here and applaud the maturity of your god.
>
> Watta guy.
I believe firmly that God is a being of infinite love. As such, He would
not have created a place of torment for His children. We read in Genesis
that everything that God made was good, and that man and woman as the
pinnacle of that creation were very good. Just as I am a father of 4
children and want them to be happy, I think that God who loves me and
everyone else wants us all to be happy. However, when we live in a way
that is out of the natural spiritual order, we suffer, just as much as we
are subject to the laws of gravity.
If I jump off a cliff, I will make a big splat on the rocks below. My
suffering then is not caused by the law of gravity, but my failing to heed
it. Likewise, when God created us to live by the law of love, to love God
and one another, he envisioned great happiness, FOR US and for Him.
However, if we live in a self-centered way, we will cause suffering to
those around us and to ourselves, and the hell we experience is then of our
own making. Hell is simply a state of separation from God's love. That can
exist in this world, or in the eternal world. But in either case, it is of
our making, not God's. The road from Hell to Heaven is one of REPENTANCE,
of changing my character by learning the way God intends for us to live
and PRACTICING IT. When we do that, naturally, we come to be in a position
where God's love can reach us. If I live in a dark damp cave, the warmth of
the sun cannot reach me. Likewise, if I live in a selfish way, God's love
cannot reach me, but when I live for others and love them, God's love and
blessing can reach me. This is a reality which anyone can prove to
themselves by experiment. You don't have to take my word for it!
When we come to experience God's love as a tangible reality in our lives,
which anyone can do, then loving others becomes much easier. Even loving
those who hate us becomes possible. This was the highest teaching of Jesus,
to love one's enemies. The pinnacle of spiritual development is reserved
for those who love as God does, unconditionally. When one does that, one
truly lives in Heaven, whether it is in this world or the next. Again,
Heaven is also of our own making, it is a choice we make.
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> I have been questioned three times in the month regarding
> the validity of my faith. This has been because I have
> attempted to propose a more liberal interpretation on some
> of our truths. One person drew my attention to the Nicene
> creed and insinuated that because my views seemed to lie
> outside it, they must therefore be non-Christian.
> [snip]
> Anyway, I have started thinking in a more basic direction:
> If I can be questioned regarding my faith because of my views
> on certain issues, what is it that makes me a Christian?
> Now, that sounds simple doesn't it? You'd have thought we
> could agree on that - after all, we're mainly Baptists
> aren't we? So - here's the challenge:
>
> What is the bare minimum I have to believe, and still be a
> Christian? For example (topical examples):
>
> Do I have to believe in the virgin birth?
> Do I have to believe life starts at conception?
> Do I have to believe in original sin?
> Do I have to believe Jesus was born of a virgin?
> Do I have to take the Bible literally?
> Must I believe in a real Adam and Eve?
>
> Does anyone out there answer yes to any of those?
Greetings from one Brit to another, separated by a big Pond. I was in
England just a couple of weeks ago visiting with my rather large family. I
have 11 brothers and sisters, and with their spouses and children and our
parents, we number 32 people! For 10 days, I just talked almost non-stop,
which is just like me ;-)
The early Christians liked to make creeds to identify who was part of the
fold and who was not. Unfortunately, the process of determining
those creeds was political and people even lost their heads if they
disagreed. It was not always the most Godly people who got to decide what
the creed was, it was those who were the most powerful.
Of your list, 1 and 4 are the same. I believe 2, 3 and 6. However, if we
look at the essentials, Jesus said that in order to receive eternal life,
one must KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. That is more important than having the
right laundry list of beliefs. The devil himself believes in God,
yet hates Him. The devil also knows that Jesus is the Son of God,
yet despises him.
Jesus said: "Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of
me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone
who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of
me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for
my sake will find it." Matt 10:37-39.
This for me is essential. Unless we love Jesus more than anything else, we
are not able to receive eternal life. And Jesus also said: "If you love me
you will keep my commandments." John 14:15. So, for me, what is essential
in the Christian message is:
1) We believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
2) We love Jesus more than anything or anyone else, and we show that love
for him by obeying his teachings and living as he did.
As for what is essential in Jesus' teachings, the Sermon on the Mount sums
it up pretty well. The parables illustrate how the Kingdom will be, and
what is the right course of action.
When we surrender our will to God's will and live as Jesus did, we come to
experience Heaven and Eternal Life right here, wherever we are. For me,
it is in my basement typing on a PC keyboard at 3:12 am!
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> Hi! Thanks for the answer.
>
> On Wed, 2 Nov 1994, Damian Anderson wrote:
> > > The author states that the promised one will come from east of
> > > Israel. So
> > > far I could not agree more, later on he enumerates the possible countries
> > > of origin and lists only the following: China, Japan, and Korea.
> > >
> > > I was very surprised about this geography! I am quite sure that there are
> > > more countries in Asia east of Israel that those three. Notice that Israe
l
> > > is at the western edge of the continent, and that thus quite a few
> > > countries are east of it.
> >
> > I am sorry for the delay in replying to you. You need to realize that the
> > audience of the original Divine Principle book was Korean Christians. I
> > don't know whether the DP justification that the Messiah must come in
> > Korea is consistent and holds water.
> Is the DP not a book originated with Rev. Moon? Are you questioning
> his teachings or the correctness of the book?
The level and style of teaching must be appropriate to the age and the
readiness of the people to receive it. Jesus said that he had many things
to tell his disciples, but they were not yet ready to hear them. So also,
Rev. Moon has said that the DP is the bare skeleton of his teachings and
the flesh must be filled in with the 200 volumes of his published speeches
that have been recorded since 1956. They are at present in Korean, but are
being translated. I have the speeches he gave in America since 1976 in
English, but even that is a lot to read. I read all his published speeches
for 1991-1994 in the last year.
> > Korea does have a long history of
> > prophecy and is a deeply religious country.
> True, so are many countries and cultures, however.
Yes, indeed. God has worked to prepare people in many countries throughout
the ages. One of the weaknesses of contemporary religion is that people
fail to see the value in other religions. Rev. Moon has said that the
Messiah comes to bring ALL people to God, and he comes as the fulfilment
of prophecy for EVERY religion. As a result, he has sponsored
inter-religious dialogue through conferences of religious leaders over
many years. He is the founder of the Inter Religious Foundation for World
Peace. Its purpose is to bring leaders of all the faiths of the world
together to find common ground on which they can collaborate to build a
peaceful future for our world. For example, the Grand Muftis (islamic
leaders) of Syria, Yemen and Egypt have sent their top disciples to be
taught by Rev. Moon in America for a 40 day training. There have been
service projects initiated by the Religious Youth Service, another project
of Rev. Moon to bring youth together from around the world in service to
others, and to share their faith with one another in common prayer and
hard work.
> > However, more important than that is that Rev. Moon has proclaimed his
> > teaching worldwide and has done may great deeds in his 74 years on the
> > earth.
> True.
>
> > I believe he is the Messiah, the one who was expected to come.
> I understand now, DP is not explicit on this topic. Are you aware that
> there are several other religious figures that have made the same claim?
> On what basis do you accept one and reject hte others?
As Jesus said, "By their fruits shall you know them." And I do not reject
the teachings of others. Rev. Moon has published the book "World
Scripture: An Anthology of Sacred Texts.", Paragon House, New York, 1991,
editor Andrew Wilson. This book contains collections of the teachings of
the world's religions, arranged by topic, including the Baha'i Faith. The
articles were all submitted by members of those faiths who are experts in
their own teachings.
I see the teachings of the prophets like a building. Each level stands on
the shoulders of every one who came before him. So Jesus stands on the
shoulders of Noah, Abraham and Moses. Mohammed stands on their shoulders,
and Rev. Moon stands on the foundation of them all. In this way, the
revelation of God to man progresses, and the teachings can become more
elevated. In other cases, a whole new religion is formed, targeted
originally at a particular people, and on a par rather than above a
predecessor. Islam would be an example of that. I see Islam as reaching
the Arabs when the Christians failed to reach them.
> > If you are truly interested, you will study more of what he teaches,
> > and you can know also.
> Yes, I am interested to learn. I found several sections of DP interesting.
I shall be posting on a regular basis to the Usenet group
talk.religion.misc and other lists. I will forward you copies of my posts
by e-mail. I am taking the liberty of posting an anonymous version of this
letter to that newsgroup because I am interested in reaching a mass
audience. God bless you and keep searching. Pray hard and God will surely
reveal to you the way that you must go.
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> I would just like to make a basic statement about Rev. Moon being
> Christ. I don't believe that is the Christ. My reasoning is based on
> what Jesus Christ himself said about his Second Coming in the bible in
> Matthew 24:
> Verse 4: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in
my
> name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many"...Verse 10:"At
that
> time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
> and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people...Verse26:
> "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go
out;
> or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as
lightning
> that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will the coming of
> the Son of Man...Verse30: At that time the sign of the Son of Man will
appear
> in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see
the
> Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
And
> And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather
> his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
>
> In other words, the Second Coming will be very obvious. Don't be fooled
> by anything short of a miraculous return. Even if someone performs
other
> miraculous acts(such as healing, etc.), it does not mean that they are the
> Christ. Jesus Christ himself stated that there would be many false
> prophets and people claiming to be him, who perform miraculous acts.
> Based upon this, I do not believe that Christ walks on this earth in
> human form. The Second Coming has not yet occurred.
> If you do not believe the Bible to be true, my arguments are irrelevant.
> But for those of you who do believe that what the Bible says is true, please
> do not ignore this extremely important piece of scripture. It will help
> prevent you from following false prophets and false Christs.
There are two lines of prophecy in the Bible concerning the return of
Christ. One is as you have shown above, the miraculous appearance on
the clouds. The other is as a thief in the night. How can they both be true?
Let me explain. You see images in the book of Revelation of the harlot
over the waters in Rev 17. The waters represent sinful humanity, as
verse 15 says. Then there is the parallel image of the Christ on the clouds.
Hebrews 12:1 refers to a cloud of witnesses. The image of the harlot on
the dirty waters represents Satan surrounded by evil people. The image of the
Christ surrounded by the clouds represents Christ surrounded by purified
people. The clouds represent evaporated purified water, purified people.
So what this means is that Christ will appear surrounded by a group of people
who have purified their lives so that they can be with him. To do the
work of building the Kingdom of God, the new heaven and earth spoken of
in Rev 21, he needs a physical body, and needs to live on the earth for
a period of many years to get that job done.
John the Apostle said "Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ
as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person
is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)
Both the first time, and the second time, the Christ comes with the same
mission. For this, he needs to be a man just like us with a mind and a body.
As for the thief in the night, he is already here in the house, yet not
known by the public. When the time comes for him to reveal his glory, all
will know.
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> >On Wed, 2 Nov 1994, S. I. of New Mexico, USA wrote:
> >I see the teachings of the prophets like a building. Each level stands on
> >the shoulders of every one who came before him. So Jesus stands on the
> >shoulders of Noah, Abraham and Moses. Mohammed stands on their shoulders,
> >and Rev. Moon stands on the foundation of them all.
>
> Here is where the basic disagreement between Moon and Christianity STANDS!
> Jesus was God incarnate.
> To deny that Jesus the christ is the one and only true God Incarnate on
the
> earth is ananthema.
I do not deny that Jesus was God incarnate. All I am saying is that the
same is expected of you and of me. Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount
that we must be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect (Matt 5:48).
> He stands on NO ones SHOULDERS.
We all learn from the exemplary faith of our ancestors, and Jesus did
too. We see that spoken of in Hebrews 11.
> THEY have relied on HIM from the begining of time.
> He is/was and always will be the Begining and the End. No human being
can
> compare to his Greatness.
This is not what he said. He insisted that we be like him and do greater
works than he. It is because of the attitude that we could not be like Jesus
that it has taken so long for the Christian world to create a world of
peace and justice and we are not there even now.
> As the one true Christ predicted Many will come and say I am the Christ
but
> do not belive them. The next time he comes there will be NO DOUBT. ALL
WILL
> SEE AND HEAR AT THE SAME TIME.
How will you tell? What are the criteria by which we can know? Jesus said
that we will know them by their fruits. Good fruits do not come from a
bad tree but from a good tree. Likewise, bad fruits do not come from a
good tree but from a bad tree. Look at people's lives, their moral standards,
their attitudes, their love, patience, kindness, forgiveness, joy, inner
peace. Then we can know who are the good, the bad and the ugly, who are
the saints and who are the ain'ts.
When Jesus was on the Earth, it was not so easy to know that he was the
One Who Was To Come. The religious leaders of his day did not recognize
him for who he was, so what is to say that you will do better this time?
The important thing at Jesus' time was to translate the faith in the law
to the faith of recognition of the Messiah, then to believe in him and
follow his example. Likewise, Christians in this age are facing the same
challenge, to translate the faith in Jesus and his teachings to a faith of
recognition in the One Who Has Come. Then to believe in him and follow his
example.
> >In this way, the
> >revelation of God to man progresses, and the teachings can become more
> >elevated. In other cases, a whole new religion is formed, targeted
> >originally at a particular people, and on a par rather than above a
> >predecessor. Islam would be an example of that. I see Islam as reaching
> >the Arabs when the Christians failed to reach them.
>
> Islam is not even close to Christianity.
Have you studied it? It teaches a lot of the same values and principles that
were taught by Jesus. They are closer than you might think.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Note: This post quotes private e-mail, used with permission
On Thu, 10 Nov 1994, S. I. wrote:
> Hi! Some comments and questions:
> On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, Damian Anderson wrote:
> > > On what authority does he claim that "Christ has returned".
> >
> > That is remarkably similar to the question that the Pharisees asked Jesus,
> > and he retorted with a question. He asked "By what authority did John the
> > Baptist teach?". He comes with the authority of God, and that requires no
> > ordination from people who are not his equals or betters.
>
> As I have written before several other people claim the same thing. They
> claim the authority of God. How do you go from there?
As with any religious teacher or teaching, you can only know them by their
fruits. If you look at the consequences of people obeying Jesus'
commandments, you see examples of the highest altruism and sacrifice in
the history of Christianity. Unfortunately, you also see the result of
people claiming to act in the name of Jesus, but who failed miserably to
follow Jesus' example.
So, in the case of any religious leader, the first thing to do is to look
at his life, especially his private life. Look at how he endured hardship,
what were his responses to difficult situations, and so on. If you look at
Jesus, you see his level of love and forgiveness when he forgave the
people who put him to death and asked God to forgive them. In the case of
Rev. Moon, to give but one example, he was beaten and tortured at the hands of
the North Korean communists, and almost died in a North Korean
concentration camp, yet Rev. Moon worked for years to bring about
reconciliation with North Korea. In 1991, he finally met with then
President Kim Il Sung who embraced him with open arms as someone who was
truly there to help their common homeland, and who has been working for
the peaceful reunification of the Korean peninsula.
> > given by the True Parents in marriage. This signifies the change of blood
> > lineage from Satan's lineage to God's lineage through the True Parents
> > who are the first ancestors of God's true lineage. Through them we inherit
> > true love, true life and true lineage. When all mankind have been reborn
> > into the lineage of True Parents, truly we will see the Kingdom of God on
> > Earth.
>
> You say 'blood lineage' does that not mean 'biological descendance'? If so
> I do not understand what is meant. What could be a rational explanation of
> Satan's lineage?
Jesus said in John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil", and also
called the leaders of his time a "brood of vipers." This signifies that
humanity is the spiritual offspring of the devil. The reason for this is
that the fall of Adam and Eve involved a sexual relationship between Eve
and Lucifer against the will of God. Lucifer, who became Satan through Eve
giving over her power to him, came to dominate Eve. Then Eve seduced Adam
into a sexual relationship against the will of God, and without God's
blessing, so also dominating Adam. The natural order is for Adam to be
under God's dominion, Eve to be under Adam's dominion, and the angels to
be under the dominion of man and woman. The fall reversed this order, so
that the angel dominated the woman, and the woman dominated the man, and
God was left out of the picture.
So, Jesus taught us that we must be born again, born of God's lineage.
Without that rebirth, we still belong to our false father, the devil.
Through rebirth, we come to be grafted into God's lineage through Christ.
However, because Jesus did not marry, his parenthood is only spiritual and
not physical. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the spiritual True Parents.
For Jesus to provide the salvation of our bodies, he needed to have a wife
and a physical family. This is promised in the Bible to occur at the
Second Coming. That is the mission of True Parents, and Rev. Moon and his
wife are fulfilling this mission in these Last Days.
> > > What led you to initially follow Mr. Moon?
> > I was getting up every morning at 6 am to study and pray in the summer of
> > 1977 in Paris, France, earnestly seeking God's will and God answered my
> > prayer by having me meet a member of the Unification Church. So, God
> > Himself led me to Mr. Moon.
>
> Many people go through the same experiences and become: Christian, Muslim,
> Buddhist, Baha'i, you name it.
Indeed they do, and God speaks through many religions to elevate people
out of Hell. However, one cannot be completely saved from sin without the
change of blood lineage, and then a process of purification and
sanctification as we unite our minds and bodies and grow towards the
perfection of God's love within us. All religions are preparing the way
for the True Parents who fulfil the promise of every religion of the world.
> > Rev. Sun Myung Moon is an old man now at 74 years of age. He is in his
> > twilight years, yet he deserves the recognition that has been denied him
> > through many long bitter years of perseverence when few if anybody truly
> > understood him and his message. He proclaimed in 1972 that after 60 years,
> > communism would reach its peak, and by its seventieth year, it would be
> > totally destroyed. In 1989, 72 years after the Russian Revolution,
> > communism finally crumbled with the felling of the Berlin Wall on November
> > 9, 1989. That is 5 years ago now.
>
> Joseh Smith predicted the Civil War and the timeframe of
> the Return of Christ. He died in 1844. The Ahmaddiyyas also claim that
> their Founder made prophesies that came true. Also Baha'u'llah made
> prophesies that later happened. Again the same question: how do you know
> who is the Messiah?
Speaking prophecy is not evidence of Messiahship, but that one is a
prophet. I do not doubt that both Joseph Smith and Baha'u'llah were
prophets. Ultimately, God has to speak to your heart. No man can convince
you. However, the Word that he speaks can be a crucial factor in the
person's spirit being resurrected to the point where God can speak to them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Note: this post refers to questions by private e-mail, used with permission
On Thu, 10 Nov 1994, S. I. wrote:
> Hi! Thanks for your reply
> On Wed, 2 Nov 1994, Damian Anderson wrote:
> > Yes, indeed. God has worked to prepare people in many countries throughout
> > the ages. One of the weaknesses of contemporary religion is that people
> > fail to see the value in other religions. Rev. Moon has said that the
> > Messiah comes to bring ALL people to God, and he comes as the fulfilment
> > of prophecy for EVERY religion.
>
> Somebody else has made the same claim in 1863. How do we know who is the one?
As I said in an earlier post, to quote Jesus, "You will know them by their
fruits."
> > For example, the Grand Muftis (islamic
> > leaders) of Syria, Yemen and Egypt have sent their top disciples to be
> > taught by Rev. Moon in America for a 40 day training.
>
> The Muslims are waiting for the Mahdi and the return of the Messiah. Are you
> saying that these Grand Muftis have accepted Rev. Moon as the Mahdi? Did
> these disciples accept Rev. Moon as the Messiah?
I cannot say for sure what is going on in their lives of faith, but I do
know that many of the Islamic leaders attended the 30,000 couples wedding
in Korea in 1992 and received the True Parents' blessing on their marriage.
> > As Jesus said, "By their fruits shall you know them." And I do not reject
> > the teachings of others.
>
> Do you mean that you accept the teachings of Baha'u'llah? He in Baghdad in
> 1863 proclaimed to be the return of Jesus Christ and the Promised One of
> all religions. Since you wrote that you 'do not reject the teachings of
> others' does that mean that you accept the claim of Baha'u'llah?
What I mean is that I do not reject out of hand the teaching of any
religion, but look for how God speaks to me and to humanity through that
tradition. I do not know the specifics of Baha'u'llah's claims, or his
teachings, but I would not say that they are false without examining them,
and him.
> > Rev. Moon has published the book "World
> > Scripture: An Anthology of Sacred Texts.", Paragon House, New York, 1991,
> > editor Andrew Wilson. This book contains collections of the teachings of
> > the world's religions, arranged by topic, including the Baha'i Faith. The
> > articles were all submitted by members of those faiths who are experts in
> > their own teachings.
>
> I appreciate very much the publishing of that book. I hope to be able to
> get one.
In case you had not noticed, I posted quite a lot of it on this newsgroup
recently, to mixed reviews. ;-)
> > I see the teachings of the prophets like a building. Each level stands on
> > the shoulders of every one who came before him. So Jesus stands on the
> > shoulders of Noah, Abraham and Moses. Mohammed stands on their shoulders,
> > and Rev. Moon stands on the foundation of them all. In this way, the
> > revelation of God to man progresses, and the teachings can become more
> > elevated. In other cases, a whole new religion is formed, targeted
> > originally at a particular people, and on a par rather than above a
> > predecessor. Islam would be an example of that. I see Islam as reaching
> > the Arabs when the Christians failed to reach them.
>
> These teachings were taught by Baha'u'llah more than hundred years ago.
> You can read them in the Book of Certitude that He wrote in 1860. The only
> difference is that He claimed to be the latest, but not last, Messenger
> from God. The next One would come in at least 1000 years after Him.
Let no man stop God from speaking! I am confident that God wants more than
anything for Truth to be revealed on the earth, in the form of teachings,
but also in the form of someone's living example. Deeds always speak
louder than words.
> > God bless you and keep searching. Pray hard and God will surely
> > reveal to you the way that you must go.
>
> Yes, I keep searching. It is fun and rewarding. About the way I think I
> must go you might read the first paragraph of the Most Holy Book of
> Baha'u'llah. It talks about this issue.
Send me some, or post it here.
> Greetings,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> > The role of a prophet is to proclaim what God calls him to say, whether
> > it is popular or not.
>
> That is true, assuming a personal "god". More on that later. Many
> people have a conception, however, that the Rev Moon tends to accumulate
> the properties of his followers and use them for his personal benefit,
> while at the same time "brainwashing" his followers. This, incidently,
> can also be said for the Catholic church. What is your response to those
> people?
Rev. Moon does accept donations from the members of the Unification Church
and puts them to very good use. One example is the Washington Times. In
the United States capital, before Rev. Moon started the Washington Times,
there was only one newspaper, the Washington Post after the demise of the
Washington Star. The creation of that newspaper and the following it has
gained through talk-radio and conservatives nationwide has contributed to
fundamental change in the United States. Many of the major political
scandals that brought down the 40 year rule of the Democratic Congress
were unearthed by the Washington Times. That is one example of his use of
money. He has subsidized the paper to the tune of $1 billion in the last
13 years.
Another project that he puts a lot of resources into is working with heads
of state towards world peace. Antonio Bettancourt (assisted by Bill Selig)
of the Summit Council for World Peace was the initiator of contact with
the late North Korean President Kim Il Sung and then Kim Jong Il which
made the recent peace accord possible. Antonio is a member of the
Unification Church and president of the Summit Council. In March, 1993, 40
former heads of state, including Former Prime Minister Edward Heath of the
UK, and Mikhail Gorbachev, and Hanna Ashrawi of the Palestinian People's
Organization gathered in Seoul, Korea, under the auspices of the Summit
Council for World Peace to discuss ways in which they could work for peace
in the Korean peninsula, the Middle East , and elsewhere.
Another project is the International Conference of the Unity of the
Sciences, an annual conference which gathers Nobel Prize winners and
scientists of that caliber to discuss ways in which science can be
directed to pursue absolute values and solutions to the fundamental
problems of our time, which you mention, such as poverty, disease, hunger,
and so on.
Another project is sponsorship of the arts. In Washington DC, there is a
Kirov Academy of Ballet, with the same artistic director as the Kirov
Ballet in St. Petersburg, Russia. Rev. Moon built and funded that school.
Rev. Moon has been very active in publishing newspapers worldwide, with
newspapers in Tokyo, Seoul, Montevideo (Uruguay), New York City,
Washington DC. Through these, he is having a profound effect on events
worldwide.
He has had interfaith conferences with members of all the major faiths of
the world, and as a result of that, published an anthology of the sacred
texts of the worlds' religions, called World Scripture, which you have
seen me post on the Internet. He has had significant contacts with the
muftis (Muslim religious leaders) in Syria, Egypt, and Yemen. Many of
these muslims participated in the mass wedding that was held in Seoul,
Korea in 1992.
In 1993, we funded a 44 nation speaking tour for Mrs. Moon. That was a
large logistical effort, and very costly. We have had major evangelistic
efforts in the Soviet Union ever since the opening up of the country to
religion in 1991.
We are active in the fishing industry and boat building as a vehicle to to
feed the third world countries by providing people with the know how and
resources to catch and farm fish and to build their own boats cheaply.
The University of Bridgeport, Connecticut, of which Rev. Moon bought a
controlling share, is doing research into oceanography to further this
effort. This is the first of a worldwide network of universities which
Rev. Moon plans to buy or build in order to educate future generations in
a way that furthers the cause of worldwide peace and cooperation, and
technology transfer to the poorer and developing countries.
I could go on and on, but the works of Rev. Moon for the cause of
alleviating worldwide problems are vast. All of these require money, which
comes from people who believe in his causes. In many cases, businesses run
by church members donate large amounts of money to these efforts. The
computer business I run is one of them.
One thing which I think will clarify many people's misconceptions of the
activities of Rev. Moon is an explanation of the origins, the thinking
and the activity of the Unification Church since its inception in Seoul,
Korea in 1954, 40 years ago last May. I will post a history of the
Unification Church soon, when I can get my scanner working, and can scan
in some texts of interest.
Adam, your list of questions was long, so I will post answers to them one
by one as I get time. Okay?
Blessings,
Damian Anderson
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: World Scripture - Renunciation of Wealth
David Oller (doller@swcp.com) wrote:
: Damian,
: This unification thing that pops out in your posts--what is it?
The Unification Church is a religious organization founded by Rev.
Sun Myung Moon in Seoul, Korea on May 1, 1954. It would take some
time to describe it adequately, but in a nutshell, he teaches that
God created the world with an ideal to create a world of goodness
and love where all humanity would live as one family embraced by the
love of God and resembling Him. This did not come about because our
first ancestors failed to follow God's will and did not achieve the
position of true men and women but came to form the first family based
on selfishness rather than Godly altruistic love. So began the history
of human suffering, and the suffering of God.
God has not been satisfied with this status quo and has worked ardently
throughout human history to raise up individuals who could understand
Him and His way of living. Examples of these were Noah, Abraham, Moses,
Buddha, Confucius, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad and so on. These individuals
taught humanity a higher way of living so that one day, God could
finally raise up a man and a woman who could fully embody God's ideal.
This couple are known in our theology as the True Parents. Through
the True Parents, all humanity will be reborn and adopted into God's
lineage, and become part of a new world order based on God's love.
It will grow to encompass all humanity. We teach that Jesus came
to fulfil this role of True Parents, but that he was unable to complete
all that he set out to do as a result of the faithlessness of the
people of his day who would not believe in him and respond to him.
This role is known by many different names in the various religions,
such as Messiah, the returning Imam, the Buddha, the True Man and
so on, but one and the same man will fulfill all these roles. I believe
and claim that Rev. Sun Myung Moon is that man.
: Breifly please! Just the jest of it so to speak, and how it relates to
: buddhism. You seem to be caught up in this hell thing. Something that is
: more an attraction for christians normally than buddhists. I'm not saying
: there is no mention of hells in buddhist texts, but the understanding of
: these hells is much different. At least than the phophetic christian
: understanding.
I did not talk about hell in this post to my recollection. There was
another post I made where someone asked about the Buddhist concept
of payment or retribution for sin and I cited quotes from the Buddhist
scriptures about hell.
Hell is the state of the absence of God's love and a state of alienation
from God and others. We do not need to die to experience this. It
is an everyday experience for many people in this world. It exists
in this world and the spiritual world.
: David Oller
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Emanuel Swedenborg and Unification Church?
> Thanks for the pointer in your home page to the Swedenborg page. I had
> been trying to learn something about Swedenborgians ever since I learned
> that the wife of a co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous grew up as one. Do
> any of Moon's ideas trace back to Swedenborg or is it just on you page as
> an aid to surfers?
Rev. Moon mentions Emanuel Swedenborg in his book "Divine Principle" in
two places. Firstly, he mentions his role as a "spiritually sensitive
scientist" who taught people about the spiritual world:
"... the famous spiritually sensitive Swedish scientist, Emanuel
Swedenborg (1688-1772), disclosed many heavenly secrets, with his
spiritual eyes opened. His announcement has long been ignored in the
theological world; but quite recently, with the increase of man's
communication with the spirit world its value is gradually being
recognized."
Secondly, he refers to the appearance of Swedenborg and others at his time
as a second religious reformation, with a third reformation expected at
the second coming of Christ:
"The first religious reformation centering on Luther followed the first
renaissance. In the religious world, a new spiritual movement which became
the second movement of religious reformation rose centering around Wesley,
Fox and Swedenborg, under unspeakable persecution after the second
renaissance. Therefore, seen form the course of the development of
history, it is natural that the third religious reformation will come
following the third renaissance. In fact, the state of today's
Christianity reveals an urgent need for such reformation."
You can find these references on my Home Page under the Divine Principle,
"Chapter 5. Preparation period for the second advent of the Messiah." I
hope this answers your question. By the way, I am curious to know where
you found out about my Home Page as I am eager to publicize it. Where did
you hear of it?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> One thing in what you quoted caught my attention. Is that Emmet Fox?
> I recently asked in one of the News Groups what impact Emmet Fox had
> on world religious thought but I never got an answer. I guess everyone
> was too busy debating the gays to see my question. :-)
No, this was George Fox, founder of the Quakers, John Wesley, founder of
Methodism, and Emanuel Swedenborg, founder of the Church of the New
Jerusalem (I think that is the name). In fact, I am not sure that
Swedenborg founded a church, but a church was formed which follows his
teachings. There is one here in Washington DC on 16th Street, the street
of churches.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: If Judas had not betrayed Christ?
Newsgroups: alt.history.what-if,talk.religion.misc,alt.messianic
D. Cho (cho@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <3ov48r$rlf@sigma.netaccess.on.ca>
: Mike Lenius writes:
: >denisenoe@aol.com (Denise noe) wrote:
: >> What would have happened? From a Christian perspective? Would there be
: >> "salvation"? Would Christ have gone on preaching until--what?
: >> From a secular, academic viewpoint--would Christianity have become a
: >> religion? Would it be recognizable?
Jesus would have gathered a much larger following during his lifetime,
he would have married and had a family, he would have enlisted the
Jewish people to evangelize the Roman Empire whose roads and communications
systems were built in preparation for him.
He would have, in short, ushered in God's Kingdom on Earth in his
lifetime, and we would not have seen 2000 more years of suffering,
war, poverty, disease, and alienation from God. This did not revolve
around Judas alone, but on the people as a whole accepting Jesus and
understanding his teachings.
Jesus forgave sin in his lifetime, and he was given the authority
to be the King of Kings when he came the first time.
: >If on the other hand we do take the Bible at face value and the
: >betrayal as fact, it's absence would be quite a cataclismic change.
: >Christianity would be completely changed or non existant. Not to
: >mention the changes that would happen to the world in general. One of
Christianity came into existence AFTER Jesus' death as a result of
the resurrection where he gathered and encouraged his scattered and
discouraged disciples and sent them out on the mission to evangelize
the world.
: Indeed, it is Jesus' death that is responsible for the popularity of
: Christian. He chose to die for his beliefs. His persistent defiance
: of the traditions of the time in order to live as he taught lead to only
: 1 thing: arrest by the authorities and ultimate execution. If he lived
: hypocritically in order to avoid execution, his followers would have lost
: their faith.
You might say that Jesus' being accepted by the people was a long
shot, but not an impossibility. If it had happened, the results would
have been immeasurably better. I think that God's original will involved
Jesus being accepted by the people, repenting, believing and obeying.
It was because they did not understand and obey that he had to go
the way of tribulation and ultimately death.
: If Jesus did not die for his beliefs, he would be as hypocritical as the
: Asian sages like Confucious. Jesus may have been a mad man, but he
: cannot be accused of having been a hypocrite.
Not so. Jesus only died because men plotted to kill him. If they had
instead believed, it would not have changed the value of how Jesus
lived his life. He was no hypocrite as he practiced what he preached.
: >two things would probably happen. Either Jesus would slide into
: >relative obscurity as a minor footnote in History or his teachings
: >would still carry great weight today.
Jesus would not have slid into obscurity as a man of God in the Satanic
world cannot help but be hated by the world. Men of God are at the
same time both the most loved and the most hated, loved by the godly,
hated by the ungodly.
: If Jesus did not die for his beliefs, his teachings would have no weight
: today.
I don't think so. Buddha's beliefs have weight today, yet he was not
martyred as far as I know.
: >I can't speculate whether or not Jesus would still be considered the
: >son of God with a large and varied religious following of his own.
: >I believe that a high probability definitely exists that his teachings
: >would be absorbed by mainstream Judaism as Jesus mellowed with age.It
: >most likely become a part of todays jewish beliefs in some form or
: >another as Jesus was obviously a very charismatic teacher and
: >preacher. Jesus seemed to already have a large following of both
: >radicals and moderates in just his three years as a religious leader
: >and the mind boggles trying to speculate what his impact may have been
: >if he led a full life influencing others in the religious pursuits.
To say that Jesus would have "mellowed with age" would indicate that
he would have been like salt that loses its saltiness, one thing he
guarded against and taught against. No, I believe that the greater
his following, the more emboldened he would have become to proclaim
God's will and plan to an ever larger audience.
: If Jesus had lived to a ripe old age, he would have been able to teach us
: more about many things that he described in hard-to-understand parables.
: We would have a better understanding of what Christianity is. Further,
: there would have been a lot less of the violent Christian hypocrisy that
: sprang up hundreds of years after his death.
One of the big problems with Christianity is that we have so very
little of what Jesus actually said. The actual words of Jesus in the
gospels cannot take up more than 50 pages, yet I am sure that he would
have wanted to teach so much more than he did, and much was lost as
it was not recorded at the time, and it was recorded from memoryy.
The evangelists did not take notes at his speeches which they transcribed.
They were pieced together years after the fact from memory. Jesus
in fact says in John's gospel that he had so much more to say to the
people, but they were unable to receive it (John 16:12).
: Remember the Crusades? They were done in the name of God. If Jesus'
: were alive, he would have condemned them. To kill in the name of God
: (i.e. the name of Jesus) would be one of the most hypocritical things to
: do.
Not only that, if he had set up a tradition, and a lineage and passed
on the tradition of his way of life to his descendents, there would
have been a direct lineal descendent of Christ's on the earth as the
representative of Christ ever since that time.
: However, the church in Medieval Europe took advantage of the
: hard-to-understand parables and warped their explanation to justify the
: bloody military operations of the day.
Worse than that, people were illiterate and could not read the Bible,
so most of their instruction was from images such as in stained glass,
and art, sculpture and so on, or relying on the clergy who were corrupt.
It was the Reformation that sparked the interest in the scripture
and people rediscovered the value of the scriptures themselves, and
this is what sparked the desire to be able to read, in order to read
the scriptures.
: -Dwight
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Christ manifested in the flesh
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian
References: <9513516.2276@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
dsv (dsv@arbld.unimelb.edu.au) wrote:
: Does anyone believe that Christ came in a flesh as ours? (Romans 1:3) I
: would like to hear answers.
Yes, Jesus came with flesh as we have flesh. In fact 1 John 4:3 says
that those who do not believe that Jesus came in the flesh have the
spirit of the antichrist.
Not only that, but when Christ comes again, he will come in the flesh
in the same way in which he came the first time, born from the womb
of a woman, as Rev 12:5 says. But, he will come with a new name, as
Rev 2:17 and Rev 3:12 say.
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cult Expert Online: Dr. Margaret Singer
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.usa,alt.recovery.religion,alt.psychology.help,sci.psychology,alt.mindcontrol
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.usa,alt.recovery.religion,alt.psychology.help,sci.psychology,alt.mindcontrol
References: <3p0b3f$8c2@news1.shell>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service
Distribution:
Michael J Fremont (fununiv@shell.portal.com) wrote:
: The Internet Roundtable Society is pleased to announce the following FREE
:
: INTERNET ROUNDTABLE
:
: DR. MARGARET THALER SINGER
: The country's leading authority on cults and post-traumatic stress
: Topic: "Cults in Our Midst: The Hidden Menace in Our Everyday Lives"
I am glad that the US House of Representatives and the US Senate are
planning to hold hearings on the Waco, Texas massacre in which the
Cult Awareness Network played a decisive advisory role. This Dr. Singer
is a member of CAN and I would like to see the pernicious influence
of this group brought to light in the coming hearings.
In particular, I would like to see investigation of the use of psychological
warfare, such as the playing of loud music day and night and then the
use of chemical weapons, namely CS gas, which is banned by international
treaty from use in warfare. This gas was used by the US government
in Waco, and that alone would have killed the children in the compound.
It is also unstable and liable to catch fire, and this could have
been caused by the CS gas grenades going off. Innocent people were
killed in that fire. Do we not have a presumption of innocence and
a system of due process in this country? The chickens are coming home
to roost for the Cult Awareness Network and the FBI and ATF who listened
to their apalling advice.
If they can come after the Branch Davidians today, then they can come
after your church tomorrow. The only criterion for a group to be called
a cult is that it is sufficiently unpopular. So-called cults engage
in similar religious practices to other religious groups, although
with perhaps more fervor, hence their unpopularity. As a member of
the Unification Church, I have experienced bigoted talk and physical
violence. The US government has a duty to protect all religious
minorities, whether the secular culture labels them as cults or not.
Blessings, ITPN,
Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net